Nope, there is no victory condition for defender. Actually, fighting is worst choice for defending side now, as it give no benefits and bring losses.
I see some people on this forums have tendency to teach others, what they should and shouldn’t do. This is rude and not helpful for ongoing discussion.
Well OP post not about removing wardecs, it’ about making em more attractive, especially for defending side. Currently there is no point in defending, unless we talk about structure centered wars.
In game where most of pvp done just for fun it will be big sign “wardec me more”. Some pve oriented corp will never switch to pvp just to become less easer target. They will leave corp or run to nullsec and join giant blueball ar disband or just don’t undock.
I’m not against wardecs, conflicts drive this game. More conflicts are good, wars around structures looks very interesting for me, maybe I even join one of involved corporations.
that’s one point i think you can pull as a good idea. like markets, your reach is restricted by your region. it allows for an entity with a defensive deficiency or other groups to form a staging area where the pressure is off.
the only real effect that might be game changing might just be that the common warganking entity can only restrict access to one trade hub at a time unless they split up. and if they don’t, might just drive more business out to another area of space.
Wardecs push people out of highsec and make them join the real game. (Those that completely leave, its a sad story.) What does the aggressor have to loose. What is the economic value of that declaration-action. Stiff rewards are very time consuming to balance.
How do you think to adjust to cover these parts?
EVE is a complex game. You have a good attitude, but i think your idea needs more rework to adress all those many issues. But then noone will understand all the implications that went into your design. kassandrian problems.
Wars in Nullsec are spun by propaganda departments; wars between smaller entities also develop a narrative; Stories are part of the game and very dear to my hard. Dont take that narrative-battle away by letting the game define it.
You understand very little. Defensive side can attack just as easily as the attackers. We are only rude when you dig in and refuse to try to understand structure based wars will never work and think that people station camp in an insta-locker only shooting rookie ships. Ive paid out hundreds of millions and chatted with newbros after I killed them to let them know what was going on. We even got a few recruits and were able to teach them how wardecs work, how to use and avoid them.
What are the benifits of the attacking side? Loot? Same as defensive side. Blow up a ship and loot the wreck.
Look at, Red Coallition? Used 70 some odd ships to take out over 400? It can be done. Most of the time roaming mercs are a ■■■■ mix fleet you can take out with a single competent FC and a fleet fit for the right enemy and can work together.
What evidence is there that new players are being abused? The war dec mecahnic is a valid in game mechanic. It applies to all players who are vulnerable to it (i.e. anyone in a player run corp). Young, old, rich, poor, PvPer, PvEer. Doesn’t matter. And a new player always has the option of dropping back to his NPC corp and making a private channel with his buddies till the war is over.
So you have set yourself defending a group that you claim is being abused…but for which there is zero evidence and said group has a route to avoid such PvP is they so wish.
How do you abuse someone with wardecs? They are opt in, and you can leave them any time you want. You can even rejoin your corp after the war is over. And you can do this as often as you want.
Defensive side don’t want anything attacker have. Don’t want loot, don’t want kills, don’t want “tears”. Even if defender overcome bad chances and “win” it will do nothing good for them. OP ask for clear goal for defender side, I agree with it. I’m all for wardecs, more conflict is good, but mechanics need to be improved, this is my opinion on the matter.
Competent FC is rare beast in highsec pve corp and fleet fit for action is just utopian dream, And this is will be that way until defensive side will have something to fight for. Structure wars actually working, because defender have something of value to protect.
We all have some experience now, we know how to defend from wardecs or avoid them, but tell me, why new player should even bother? Remember, he don’t hooked to this game, he just got in. Newbros being attacked for no reason from very beginning of their EvE path giving bad name to the game and force potential new players out. Eve hard to start for new player without any additional handicaps.
The defenders fight back to protect themselves and because it’s fun. It’s the point of the game. Or they can mission and mine whilst keeping an eye on local or they drop corp and come back when it’s over. They have complete control over their level of involvement! And anyone who leaves the game because of a dec probably shouldnt be playing a game where wardecs are integral to game play.
If you’re talking about a corp that is entirely made of new players then THAT’S where you’re problem is. New players shouldn’t be starting corps unless they want their game to be very hard. They should be joining established corps who can teach them the game. Send them my way.
New players can join channels, join fleets and play with others, all without being in a player corp. It’s completely optional.
Again, and for the millionth time, anyone who does not want to be decced should not be in a corp. New players are only vulnerable to wardecs because they CHOSE to be. How ■■■■■■■ hard is that to understand? Please tell me what you don’t understand here?
Yes, but there are also plenty of anecdotes of how a war motivated people to stay with the game or grow as an Eve player.
I have no doubt that wars are especially hard on new players who start/join a corp full of other new players. From a game design point of view, forming a small corp of low SP, inexperienced new players is the last thing you want to do, yet that isn’t always obvious to new players. The solution however is not to nerf wars even more or make corps completely safe, or all you will do is make a safe space for veterans to exploit the advantages of being in a corp without risk, out-competing the new players and making their lives miserable in another way.
The only solution I see is to tier corps somehow, so that new/small corps are indeed protected from wars by everyone else in New Eden. But a reduction is risk has to come with a reduction in rewards. You should be able to play Eve without worrying about wars while in a social group.
But that safety has to come with tradeoffs. The game cannot be structured so that making yourself weak is an advantage, or everyone will just game the system and make themselves weak to get the free protection. This applies to new players as much as anyone.
Honestly, the worst abusers of industrially-minded “newbros” aren’t wardeccers, but rather the veteran industrialists who exploit the various holes in the highsec mechanics, and the free protection of CONCORD, to drive down the profit margins on the goods newbros could be gathering and building. Anything that reduces the pressure on these veterans is bad for new entrants and should be avoided no matter how many people, either in good faith or disingenuously cry “think of the children!”