Great job on with the OP!
Looking forward to the Vargur piece. While i suspect you won’t have many good things to say about it, i still probably won’t change it for anything else…
Autocannons go brrrrrr
EVE has sound? 
Not sure can’t hear it over sound of my happy
AC vargur? preposterous
Can any of our statisticians out there tell us if there has been any uptick in the number of Marauders lost since the change? I can see that particular number going either up or down, depending on use increase, using offensive firepower as a defensive tool, more active hunting, etc.
You can see it for yourself: https://zkillboard.com/group/900/stats/
Losses Points ISK
May 99 979 415.84b
April 466 6,792 1.62t
March 524 7,375 1.56t
February 251 4,010 615.14b
January 223 3,588 577.99b
the prices jumped a lot. If points are related to isk value, then we need to correct it WRT inflation.
I know - Im posting today. Heres my excuse;
We found a ferret in the back garden, he had no microchip and had been attacked by a fox. We had to keep taking him to the vet but hes all good and sitting next to me now. I have a new co pilot it seems. Anyway… on to the paladin and varg…
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3) Paladin
The Paladin is, perhaps unsurprisingly, the trickiest to fit. While you have enough CPU and PG room to throw just about anything you want at the ship, the recent Marauder changes mean it eats capacitor much quicker than it did beforehand. I have to factor this into the analysis - which some people might disagree with, but given bastion locks you down I think you should certainly be cap stable with your weapon and damage mods active while bastion is on.
A further (and briefly divergent point I feel I should make before touching on the pulse laser variant) consideration is the fact that Tachyons actually provide a reasonable option if you intend on staying within a long or mid range engagement (might be a better option for newer Marauder pilots). Unlike the short range weapon variants, you definitely want to avoid T2 ammo, because faction multifrequency quite simply outperforms gleam in its total integrated damage (look at the total area under the curve basically), and the additional theoretical damage offered is quickly lost against real world targets and diminishes at range. The rate of DPS increase as your target is further away in fact is the same, with gleam dropping past optimal but multifrequency reaching further. The graph below demonstrates this.
(no damage mods, just 4x tachyons & bastion)
Where you can see that under around 33 km, gleam does perform better, but frankly if your intention is to be within 45 km you should be using pulse lasers. You can see that faction ammo has a far better applicative reach.
There is some debate to be had about Tachyons vs Pulse in mid range engagements, where you can consider pulse variants using scorch vs tach variants using faction ammo. Below you can see that tachyon II’s using faction gamma crystals outperform pulse lasers using scorch:
Frankly, I am a big fan of tachyons on Paladins. They have some capacitor issues but if you are good at controlling range they are a decent choice, especially against classically Amarr enemies like blood raiders and Sansha whose battleships will orbit at around 40-55km. (The graph after next will demonstrate how Tachyon Paladins are superior at mid range and beyond).
The graph below shows simply that when using pulse lasers, you will want to leave the multifrequency crystals at home in favour of gamma, and just use conflaguration which generates a very attractive damage application curve, dealing a lot of damage to real world targets at quite a wide range spread.
Where you can see that against battleship targets, multifrequency crystal damage application curves lay within that of conflaguration, meaning in all cases, conflaguration is superior. Gamma begins to exceed conflaguration at 36km (again; please remember this is with the guns only; we haven’t begun to discuss application mods yet (I told you the Paladin was complicated)), and also offers a better spread of applied damage to cruiser targets than multifrequency, losing negligible applied damage at below 30km.
So, knowing that tachyons using faction crystals are generally better than pulses using scorch, how do tachyons stack up against pulses using conflaguration and at which crystal does the balance tip?
Well, as you can see, here’s the thing; at the range you want to stop using conflaguration with pulse lasers, is the range you want to have tachyons fitted instead. You can see that at 36km against large targets, pulse lasers with gamma do roughly the same damage as tachyons with multifrequency, although pulses apply better below 47km.
Knowing from experience that if you have the appropriate (and necessary but not compulsory) skills to fly a Marauder, you should be able to use tachyons and pulses interchangeably without altering anything else in the fit. Deciding between Tachyons and Pulses should be based on the content you are running, and personal preference (you could go with a cheaper tank, perhaps even just T2 LAR if you use tachyons for example). Lets consider the best application mods using a pulse variant.
The trend across turret ships is that loading direct damage mods into the low slots is optimal against larger targets (which make up the most HP of NPC pools). Below you can see a graph demonstrating this;
With the diverging range being 31km without any tracking computers. As before, a tracking enhancer is better against smaller targets.
As for mid slots, it almost goes without saying that an Amarr ship should be using tracking computers. If blasters benefit more from them than grapplers and webs then the longer range lasers will benefit even further. The interesting factor here is that at optimal ranges, lasers track exceptionally well, so what difference does it make when you blow up the signature of a target using a target painter?
Interestingly, at sub optimal range you increase your applied damage to smaller targets, and simply shift your damage application curve closer to 0 km. Given that in a Paladin you want to engage between 20 and 50km, I recommend adopting the wider curve that tracking computers can give with optimal range scripts loaded. Of course you need to consider whether you have your guns grouped or not (I like to use a 2/2 split). If you do not have them grouped, you would be better off going with tracking computers of target painters as you will only be doing the extra damage to one additional target. You could use 2x target painters, but you then have no tracking or range mods and depend entirely on crystals, unless you dedicate valuable rig space.
Using 2x tracking computers presents a problem for the paladin now, as we have about 20m capacitor remaining. This is just with the guns firing constantly (which you definitely want to do to apply DPS). There are a couple of ways we can overcome this:
- Dedicate rig space to capacitor management
- Energy discharge elutriation I gives 43.2% stability and +3.19GJ
- Capacitor control circuit I gives 38% stability and +2.19GJ
- Semiconductor memory cell gives 35.4% stability and +1.36GJ
(Energy Discharge Elutriation I is the better rig to fit)
- Dedicate a low or mid slot to a capacitor module
-Large cap battery II gives 42.0% and +3.45GJ
-Cap recharger II gives 44.5% and +4.49GJ
-Cap power relay II gives 48.6% and +6.54GJ
(Capacitor Power Relay II is the best module to fit)
-
Dedicate a skill hardwiring slot to capacitor management (You will need Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Systems Operation EO-605 & Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Management EM-805 just to get +0GJ and effective stability at 219m17s - but this will set you back almost 300m and slot 6 and 8)
-
Use faction tracking computers (is it worth it though - you gain +2min?)
Personally I would sacrifice a low slot for the power relay, as the extra capacitor gain allows you to be more versatile and fit both an MWD and MJD as well as providing you a little extra skin on your teeth when you miscalculate. If you typically go for one prop mod, use the cap recharger instead. If you are greedy and want both the two utility mids, and three lows, then go for the discharge rig. Using a power relay also gives you more room to fit tachyons if you want.
As for damage rigs themselves, if you go for a stronger cap fitting, by using something like the capacitor power relay, you have more versatility and can fit a burst aerator II over a collision accelerator II (giving an extra 50 DPS and more chances of higher damage hits). Below is a graph showing the negligable difference a locus coordinator provides over a metastasis adjustor (especially as, beyond that 40km engagement mark you should be heading out with tachyons anyway which will benefit more from the metastasis opposed to the locus)
*(However, while not entirely relevant to the topic at hand, you might want to forgo the metastasis rig and use a nanobot injector instead, given that with the power relay you are depending on only two slots for your tank. Again, using a cap recharger overcomes this but then you need to decide between an MJD and MWD - a power relay simply offers more versatility whose downfall you can compensate for more with the spare rig slot than you can the other way round.)
This ultimately leaves us with the following skeleton fit for optimal damage application;
[Paladin, Paladin - Max Damage fit skeleton]
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Capacitor Power Relay IITracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Bastion Module I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster IHobgoblin II x5
Where you will use scorch for anything that drops or spawns out of range, but considering you have a rather wide damage curve of ca 2800 dps between 10 and 40km, repositioning will be minimal and the time spent in bastion will be short too. Using the power relay allows you to simply swap for tachyons as well if you want.
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4) Vargur
This is a placeholder - will edit the vargur analysis in here when complete
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The thing is that the cap usage diff is exactly the same as using an energy elutriation II rig.
The elutriation II uses the same calibration as a locus coordinator II. So, to have a more adequate comparison you should compare a locus rigged pulse to a elutriation rigged tachyon.
It’s stil not as good because the pulse have higher tracking but that’s less relevant since the rats will mostly be approaching you, so unless you are very close range you should hit 100%.
It’s also not as good because pulse use a lot less PG but actually it’s not really important because most of the time you have an excess.
basically MF(orange) is useless for pulse, and gleam(purple) for tachyon, because they are intended for close range (more tracking) but you decide to not go there in PVE .
So here we can see that :
- up to 40 km conflag are better (+35% over the second one)
- from 40 to 70 tachyon mulltifrequency are better (+20%)
- 70 to 100 it’s scorch (+45%)
- 100+ it’s aurora
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I did make the point about MF and conflag etc, at the start, and that at the point you switch away from conflagration on pulses is pretty much the moment you would realise you’d have been better off undocking with tachyons, given tachyons with gamma crystals will outperform pulses using scorch:
Basically if you use pulses, you must engage within 10-45km, otherwise use tachyons instead.
Regarding the rigs; you will see I use a t2 damage rig, and a t1 locus or metastasis. You are correct that tachyons with a discharge is better though.
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[Paladin, Budget Sniper Paladin]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Large Cap Battery II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
Bastion Module I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hobgoblin II x15
While this is not my exact fit it’s basically the same
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Yep, although you could squeeze a more optimal damage spread out of those rigs!
I picked it up with the rigs and made the best if it… I can do a fair few missions without breaking into armour
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But of course, the pulse are short range so if you want to go long range it’s better to use tachyon than pulse. Especially since the paladin can afford the PG cost and a MJD to put itself in perfect position.
Anyhow, if you intend to shoot at range, then it’s 100+km and aurora is just better. If, however, you intend to let the rats come closer to you, and even can shoot the BS at their orbit range, then it’s 20-50km that you are interested in.
The tachyon vs pulse is not about the raw numbers : it’s about two very different ways to play. With tachyon, since you MJD, you have no issue with tracking but you basically have a constant 1200 DPS from 90 to 150km, 2k from ±50 to 90.
the pulse means you do more paper DPS, but since you are basically 50-km from your target, it also means you need application modules - though drones can help alleviate the small fries.
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Yes, agreed, but the thread is about maximum applied damage, not which ship makes the best sniping boat which is why I have used graphs where the targets are two non ideal moving ones (which take into account the angular velocity at different ranges, which is why at 0 you are doing effectively 0 DPS). As far as sniper boats go, currently just about nothing can compete with the Paladin, in fact with tachyons it dominates mid range PvE too.
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Before the marauder change my setup was VERY different… the setup now has me mjdíng away from my warp in… so even if a bunch of suicide alts warp in… im at least 100km away and maybe aligning for a insta dock or semi safe spot.
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Thank you, great analysis
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So appears sniper setup is great for level 5 missions. I did the hidden base with one warp out due to no cap. Didn’t think it would do lvl 5s at all.