March 2020 - General Feedback

[Meridan_Night]

Here you go CCP: @CCP_Dopamine, @CCP_Fozzie, @CCP_karkur, @CCP_Aurora, @CCP_TrashMob, @CCP_Habakuk:

The Guardian

It presents a cosmos of 7,500 interconnected star systems, known as New Eden, which can be travelled in spaceships built and flown by any individual. In-game professions vary. There are miners, traders, pirates, journalists and educators. You are free to work alone or in loose-knit corporations and alliances, the largest of which are comprised of tens of thousands of members.

As a microcosm of human activity, the game has been studied by academics interested in creating political models, and by economists interested in testing financial ones. In a universe where every bullet, trade, offer of friendship and betrayal can be tracked and its impact logged and measured, Eve offers a new way to understand our species and the social systems of our world.

Eve’s story is written and steered by the actions of its players, whose individual and collective dramas play out and intersect week by week.

Few video games accommodate their player base in this way. Eve’s creators have learned that the future of their world depends not only on the happiness of the game’s players, but also their feeling that the players, ultimately, own the world which they inhabit.

We want our market back!

[Sylvia_Kildare]

@M_Cori

So do I have to wait until someone buys the 5.000.000 cheaper rockets before mine may be considered? And if I also change their price a few times, I’m already in the red with the already low profit ???

Buy that stack of super cheap rockets and keep or sell it yourself at a more reasonable price, same as how things always have been.

[Optimus_Maximus]

Stop selling them. Sell directly to your corpmates or people you talk to in local. When CCP sees their biggest ISK sink in the game is “sinking”, they will wake up and decrease the relist fees a lot.

[Faye_Vallenttine]

I’m agree!
Or sell by contract.

[Trololol_Sisjan]

@Mr_Hiro

Though I think there were 2 bots on the Providence market in this screenshot.

Though I think you have sick fantasy

[Trololol_Sisjan]

@Boulder_Tsero

I don’t want penny wars

you get “million wars” and you loose it quick

[James_Dragonrider]

@Shipwreck_Jones

Won’t many people gravitate towards the quicker, easier, and cheaper way of getting their SP award

Yes, many people will. Some will choose to farm newbs simply because CCP has sanctioned newb farming for a month. It is not as quick and easy as an arranged fight, but it is a “more honest kill”.

What is CCP’s intent with this event?
That players will destroy loads of goods over the month, depleting the stocks?
Will happen.
That real battles between nearly equal adversaries will happen more often?
Wont happen.
That players will make new, free accounts to supply the ships to be lost?
Will happen.
That players will pay for another omega account to get the kills?
Might happen some, but mostly not.

@Shipwreck_Jones

They’ll drop loot, which people can then scoop.

Shipwrecks can’t scoop loot. Newb areas are high security.

@Shipwreck_Jones

Second, killing an MTU gives a suspect flag.

Don’t know what your point is here?

@Shipwreck_Jones

Third, I’m fully aware that most players won’t fight fair.

I would suspect that most players actually WOULD fight fair, but you’re most apt to be ambushed by the small % that wont. Just like in real life.

@Shipwreck_Jones

Edited for grammar

I’m interested in substance, wont knock you for typos. I’m pretty fluent in typos.

[James_Dragonrider]

@Meridan_Night

…and by economists interested in testing financial ones.

Maybe they are testing something for the real world’s economy?

[Boulder_Tsero]

yeah exactly, I have middling BO/SO’s and 1 set of modifications cost me 135m yesterday, that’s 135 off any profit. Where is there any prohibitive action done by CCP on any other area of the game to the same scale? This is a massive bitch slap. So many other people in thread sitting there saying adapt and overcome, that’s all great, myself and many other will. But saying move on doesn’t recognise a mistake that’s been made, or a huge over reaction by CCP.

They could have increased the modification cool down to 15/30 mins, introduced milder modification taxes that would still have sunk billions out the game. This Cyber Austerity suck balls and targets only specifics roles. Ill still make ISK, but now all the old crusties sitting on hundred of billions or trillions have a much stronger hand and the little guys will get ever further squeezed out. Olmecca must be spinning in his socialist grave, especially considering all those extractors he’s sitting on are now nice paperweights.

[QuakeGod]

@Boulder_Tsero

Where is there any prohibitive action done by CCP on any other area of the game to the same scale?

I guess you are unaware of the upcoming changes to mineral distribution, asteroid sizes, and moon mining? Miners are going to take a huge hit as well. You’ll live…

[James_Dragonrider]

@Sylvia_Kildare

Buy that stack of super cheap rockets…

You’ve mistaken “cheaper” to mean “super cheap”.
They might be only 1 increment cheaper.

It is common to place an order to buy / sell and have someone drop a large pile in front of you instead of letting you do your 1,2,10 or even 100. I often get people dropping orders for thousands a tick ahead of me, within minutes of placing my orders.

[Boulder_Tsero]

Changing the collective amount of available rock and ore is equally huge agreed. But it doesn’t actively remove a play style. You can’t profitably or efficiently use Rorq’s any more, now it’ll be barges. But scarcity may well go some way toward increasing prices to make up that difference. Miners still gonna mine.

But Miners aren’t paying extra taxes on rocks, they aren’t paying additional refining taxes which eat into profits, and many sell by contract so they will avoid any interaction with markets.

This market change affects maybe less than a thousand heavily invested marketers directly, but extremely heavily and disproportionately, and everyone peripherally. Like most taxes they are trying to discourage certain actions with huge penalty, but the actions they are trying to discourage here is people engaging with the market. It’s tres bizarre

[Sarn_Melkan]

So you are telling me, that active traders need to adjust their playstyle, just like Rorq multiboxers did?
So now they need to find a playstyle, where they trade stuff without adjusting the price all the time?
I really dont see the problem.

[Boulder_Tsero]

If you are looking forward to playing EVE on a mobile platform then you have nothing to be concerned about. Move along citizen, would you like to know more?

[James_Dragonrider]

@Sarn_Melkan

I really dont see the problem.

Do you want to see the problem? Or do you just want to dismiss it?
If you want to dismiss it: move to the next post.

The problem is: One of the core aspects of active trading is the ability to change the price.
With the price spread on the most actively traded goods being only about 10%, you pay most of that in tax if you buy and sell with orders.
If you make a single price change: you’re in the red. So you’re no longer “permitted” to change pricing.
On higher spread items: the spread is higher because the item is less liquid.
The risk is higher that if you buy, you wont be able to sell it again.

Both of these types of trades can, and did, have a lot of middle men.
As someone pointed out: there were probably less than a thousand full time traders.
I’m not one of them, but I understand it very well from my trading on the real stock exchange.

There is 1 particular type of trader known as a day trader. This is someone who will buy a bunch of goods to sell at a higher price THE SAME DAY.
The ability to adjust the price to make sure their goods sell is a CRITICAL component.
Without that ability to adjust: there is no day trading.
There is no way to adjust to the change, the form of trading is simply eliminated.

There is also another type of player in Eve who takes advantage of brief variations in pricing like the day trader, but instead of it being in 1 market, it is across markets. They buy from one market, haul, and sell in another market.
Like the day trader: they need liquidity, and the risk of having the target order filled before they get there is one of their main risks.
To offset that risk, they have the option to mitigate their losses by adjusting their sell price to make sure their high volume goods are sold off first.
Without the ability to adjust the price: they can’t ensure liquidity.
This profession is also highly threatened by the new tax.
Adjust? They simply will manage risk by not “normalizing” the markets. Or only do so to a smaller degree.

Both of these changes are bad for Eve. Even if you’re not in either profession: the changes affect you by what you can buy and sell, and how easily. How easily means it affects both how much you pay for some goods, as well as where you can trade them.

This is a “universe wide” change that will negatively impact the game.
Most players may not realize that they have been affected.
If you have to make 5 jumps to buy a ship, you can’t tell that it would have been available locally if not for the market change. All you see is that it is where it is, at the price it is at. You can’t tell that you would have saved time and money under the old system.

But what’s really bad about this change is that it is at its core: a tax for the sake of tax.
CCP announced they implemented several new “ISK sinks” with this update.
In short: CCP has openly stated they have come up with new ways to rob players.

It would be possible to play the game with 0 taxes, and only the destruction of ships and structures would cause am ISK loss. CCP could be happy with players buying PLEX and selling it for ISK as CCP’s means of getting paid in the real world. Now CCP is looking to steal ISK from the player base. Since that is tied to ISK purchase via PLEX, it means CCP is stealing real money from players.

How can anyone think this is a good change?

I’ve actually not heard anyone (other than CCP) say that this is a good change.
I hear people saying 1 of 3 things:

1. We don’t like this change, and we want it undone because it is bad for the game.
2. They changed it, so deal with it.
3. I don’t understand why this change matters?

There is 1 other element as to why this is a bad change:
CCP was informed by many players ahead of time that this was a bad change, and they did it anyway.
This comes after the “red dot” change, where players have begged for an “opt out” option.

CCP has ignored the player base on both counts.
Conclusion: CCP wants older players to quit, and to have newer players join who “don’t know any better”.

My guess is that, if a player isn’t paying for Omega directly, then CCP views them as a “drain on resources” that isn’t paying for the lights to stay on.
CCP seems to have missed the fact that all PLEX used to pay for Omega in game has to be purchased from CCP by another player. All PLEX purchases in game for ISK help support Eve staying online.
Including those from “free” players.

[Erebus_TheChin_Sundance]

exit option, from the launcher dropdown setting, is causing the launcher to become ‘not responding’ have to close (end task) with task manager, didnt do this before last patch, anyone else having this issue?

[Scoots_Choco]

@Boulder_Tsero

And this change renders the market obsolete for most people that were engaging with it.

YAWN.
Oh look, more alarmist over-exaggeration.

News flash kid, the change is live, and people are still “engaging” with the market. Goods are still being sold and bought. Wow.

@Boulder_Tsero

it’s about removing playability for individuals more constrained on availible time.

This is so wrong, I don’t even know where to start.

Edit: Since you and your fellow kids are gonna keep screeching, I’m gonna leave this thread and come check back in about 3 months when you and your moron friends have all realized that the change is not as bad as you thought it was.

I see too many of these morons constantly crying about how the game is dead or how it’s gonna completely destroy some aspect of the game. Each and every time CCP does anything, one of you kids starts screeching to high heaven only to settle down 2 months down the line and realize that it was actually to your benefit.

Good luck with your screeching, over-exaggerations, and whining. Maybe one day, you’ll learn to finish your vegetables.

[Circumstantial_Evidence]

@Scoots_Choco

…only to settle down 2 months down the line and realize that it was actually to your benefit.

If enough traders quit EVE because of the broker fees change (I have other reasons to stay) - the ones who are left will benefit. Will they quit trading but stay subscribed because they have other reasons, like I do? Is name-calling mentioned in the book about how to win friends and influence people? Is EVE better with fewer players? This is the concern we have with every “chaos era” change.

[879]

Yeah, the launcher hangs for me also when I try to exit now.

[Sarn_Melkan]

@James_Dragonrider

The problem is: One of the core aspects of active trading is the ability to change the price.

So was ratting 23/7, but we learned that that is pretty boring for humans and bots are made to abuse such mechanics, so we changed it.

@James_Dragonrider

With the price spread on the most actively traded goods being only about 10%

So the pricespread will propably increase, because traders wanna keep the same margin and maybe have room for 1 adjustment? Meaning if they dont need to adjust they get an even bigger margin?

@James_Dragonrider

The risk is higher that if you buy, you wont be able to sell it again.

Sounds like a great Risk vs Reward mechanic? Thats like a chore concept of Eve and im glad it finally reached out to the market.

@James_Dragonrider

probably less than a thousand full time traders.

*bots (and some stupid humans trying to compete with maschines)

@James_Dragonrider

day trader

I get that this was great for daytraders, but you fail to explain, why daytraders are good for the market. So why should i care? Adapt or die i guess.

@James_Dragonrider

They buy from one market, haul, and sell in another market.

So they have less risk, because the market move slower and they have less risk, that the opportunity is gone, when they are done moving?
How are regional traders perma adjusting their orders, if they arent even in the same region, cause they are hauling stuff?
Id say thats overall a big buff for the playstyle. Also, they cant fall for the margin trading scam anymore.

@James_Dragonrider

the changes affect you by what you can buy and sell, and how easily.

nope, because over 95% of all orders dont get adjusted a single time.

@James_Dragonrider

If you have to make 5 jumps to buy a ship

If there only was a single person selling the ship, then he wont be impacted by the change, cause he doesnt need to change his order at all.

@James_Dragonrider

But what’s really bad about this change is that it is at its core: a tax for the sake of tax.

Check the MER and you should unterstand, that we need many new ISK sinks to counter the inflation. Im surprised the tax isnt higher.

@James_Dragonrider

only the destruction of ships and structures would cause am ISK loss.

Ships exploding doesnt destroy ISK? It destroys minerals and creats ISK with insurance.

@James_Dragonrider

Now CCP is looking to steal ISK from the player base. Since that is tied to ISK purchase via PLEX, it means CCP is stealing real money from players.

Wherent you saying that you are trading on the real stock exchange? Then why are you lacking every basic concept of understanding the economy?
PLEX has a fixed amount (amount players buy) and ISK are inflating → PLEX is worth more ISK → players get more ISK/$
CCP takes ISK from economy → PLEX is worth less ISK → players get less ISK/$, they buy less PLEX

@James_Dragonrider

I’ve actually not heard anyone (other than CCP) say that this is a good change.

Because it seems you refuse to read: “Its a good change” - me, Sarn Melkan
Id say its one of the best changes in the last 12 months.

1. No more margin trading scam
2. minimum price changes for items (like every real stock exchange, ■■■■ the 0,01 ISK game)
3. destroying a mechnic, that was abused by bots, so its about setting the right price and not managing the orders the most autistic way.
4. Creating a much needed ISK sink again.

@James_Dragonrider

My guess is that, if a player isn’t paying for Omega directly

Alpha players payed too much taxes, so they wherent competitive in the market game anyways. This change is mainly for all omega players. It doesnt matter how you become omega.