I agree that the behavior is misleading where you type a price in the order window, and press enter, and a different price is used.
I suggest that in this case, pressing enter does not submit the order, but instead it: updates the price box, blinks the price box, has a tooltip available explaining the new limitation on hover.
In the case where the price passes the validation, pressing enter submits the order.
So this poster would have to press enter twice, but imo the visual feedback would be worth it.
theyre straight up killing the market which was one of the better aspects of the game, between the huge loss people took from the ddos attacks and now killing the market, I suspect lots of people will be leaving
note that five-significant-figure price does not refresh when you scroll mousewheel on the quantity, which is another behavior I expected to see and did not
My guess is for the first few days, it will just be people pulling back their orders some, not refreshing them, etc. Kinda seems like we’re seeing buy orders thin out on some items, but that’s just my very cursory and subjective view. Could take weeks for the fuller impact of the changes to become clear.
I’m sure you’ll be able to find buyers in major hubs at some price no matter what.
We will adapt… as always, but i guess it is an end for some specific trading professions/styles. Trading itself became more risky, before you could control certain orders when price was falling by updating price more frequent and keep pressure on selling them before it will be unprofitable, all you can do now is to keep calm… and keep your stuff in hangar , since relisting eats most of the profits.
Actualy now it might be easier for botting accounts to reign markets, all you need to do is keep a few orders with small amount on top of list, and automatically keep seeding new ones with lowest/higher price, when old one are fullfilled.
So,…
how does it feel to have finally killed the game?
you keep telling us that you want to limit the amount of isk that gets into the game, but you have yet to change one of the aspect that actually generate said isk.
No changes to Moon Goo,… No real changes to Ratting, but you keep introducing changes in areas and ■■■■ up the game in ways that have zero effect on the problem at hand
What did you manage to do by slowing down the market in eve?
a slow market is a bad economy… when nothing is bought or sold, nothing is available to be blown up
also,… who had the idea to introduce the 100% escrow again?
this just limits the market for 99% of the player base, because they just can’t dump billions into it to start trading
what are people supposed to do that have over 60-70 billion in buy orders?
I just don’t get it…
the only good thing I can see is the new “collapse all categories” and actually the change to limit orders to 4 defining digits (although I think that 5 would have been better)
You misunderstood me I was being sarcastic based on the ISK value of your item. I did not want the system to change and like you was active in the market many hours a day/week. Now I am simply AFK from the market at least short term.
I can’t see why CCP want to drive people away from playing their game with idiot changes like this and do not like that the reasons they give for changes do not make any sense and are not supported sufficiently for the playerbase to understand them. I get enough of such BS in my working life and it stinks when you get it from a video game
ok,…
since it seems, that you never actually traded/ touched the market in a significant way since you consider the “humans competing with machines” to be stupid,… I could just do the internet thing and tell you to f*** off, turn on your ratting bots and stop talking about stuff you apparently have no affiliation with, BUT… Let me try to get this to be an adult conversation
The core mechanic of a competitive and healthy market was and will always be the possibility to outbid your opponent. I trade with expensive low-volume items (mainly deadspace modules and Implants, so this change hit me especially hard), as a station day trader and a region trader. Most of my buy orders are active for 2-3 weeks, some even for over 2 months, updated once per day (the buy orders), until I finally get one.
I might buy something and then update my orders until I can no longer keep my margin, and then I would let those Items sit… until the market changes to a point where I can sell it at my margin, and then I start updating my sell orders again.
This competition forces the price to a certain low point, BECAUSE we can update our orders every 5 minutes (I dont, usually every 3-4h). That competition has now been taken away.
You mention that Ratting 23/7 is also a core mechanic… There I have to strongly disagree with you. Yes, ratting is a core mechanic in the game, but doing it 23/7 is not, whereas updating market orders on high-volume items like plex, ammunition, minerals as often as possible is what keeps those items low-priced. If we adapt this mechanic to ratting, every system would have to have only ONE anomaly that can be run at a time…
You ask, why daytraders are good for the market…
We are, because we are actually the people that keep the margins lower and modules, especially the more expensive ones affordable.
I might buy a Capital T2 Rig for half its build price, and flip it in a week or two, but someone who builds it will not, but at some point those people will sell theirs too, because I was not able to get one and create my own margin.
You say, that we need more taxes to counter the inflation
We have to counter the inflation… but usually that is not done by burning money, but by limiting the money that is brought into the game
Limit the insurance payout of ships, its ■■■■■■ for most of them anyway
Limit the amount of isk, generated in an anomaly… those are after all the biggest cause for the inflation
maybe even limit the amount of ore, that one is able to mine from a Moon, or make moons have a finite amount of ore, before the moon is destroyed (I know, haters incoming), because after all, mining generates wealth. If said wealth is in the form of isk, or Tritanium has the same effect on an economy.
Traders dont generate isk or wealth in the system… they only shift it from one place to another
The newly introduced changes break the one aspect of the game, that was actually working as intended.
They only bring hardship to most traders, wich is why many of us f****ing hate it, and they will only discourage newer player from joining the market. Because who can dump 70bil in escrow into the market to open up their buy orders? It just forces us, to withhold large quantities of our wealth in our escrow/ wallet instead of giving it into the economy, and an economy where most of the money is held in on place, instead of circulating through it, is basically dead
Anyway this is all academic. Like almost all forums for debate … it’s actually just swirling hot air and ideas given away for free to a bunch of people who had already made up their minds weeks before even posting the Margin Trading devblog.
At no point was it a debate or something in which CCP listened openly to players imo. The forum is just a place to kind of placate people and give an illusion of listening or debating. Nothing more.
Better investment of energy to read the devblog, shrug and kinda go …“hmm ok yeah” … then you either slowly get less and less engaged over time and quit or you keep going. But posting and debating here… lol
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CCP send me a fun video, that said im in the top 5% of traders. I know im not one of the big boys, But id say i do interact with the market quite a bit.
You still can?
Still the same, but less updating needed to fight this fight and higher increments of change, to reach this point faster.
So you can let the order be unchanged and still sell it?
You still can.
00,1 ISKing did not influence the price in any relevant way?
So like the last two nerfs for Respawn rates? And the nerf for capital application? And the nerf to the VNI to slow down ratting? Id say such stuff is happening and will keep happening.
I disagree. People trading slower have the same effect on the margins.
We are going to ignore, that we do have negative interests in some big countrys? And just because we dont burne money in the real world as much, doesnt mean it doesnt work. Because in the real world we dont have unlimited currency generation.
So thats not effective, if they dont pay much anyways?
Seems like insurance is only +2 trillion ISK, so it really doesnt matter. I mean we could just remove nearly every form to PvE and then the inflation would be fine, but id say CCP would loose a ton of players this way.
Do you even remember what the last patch did? And what they announced for moons?
Trit price doesnt change the PLEX price, so not the same effect. But still, both needs a reduction and they are doing that right now.
But thats no reason to NOT tax the transaction. I mean they will still do the same and still generate the same amount, cause they all get the same added fee.
You mean CCP just accedently released a huge market patch (propably the biggest in the whole market history) cause they think it was working as intendet?
So in the end you are putting the same amount into the economy?
Could we get a cooldown for free adjustments (like 30 days), so we can still supply slow moving markets with large orders and sometimes adjust them to changes in the econemy?
That should help players to support smaller alliance markets with basic items.
That has no meaning, whatsoever… if you buy 10mil Trit, that still counts as 10mil transactions and can easily catapult you into the top % of traders. That does not mean, that you are a Trader with a bigger understanding of the active market at this point in time. I’m in the top 6% of traders, and when I saw that my first though was, how the f** is that possible…apparently: Because statistics
Thats the point they tried to change
although it is still technically possible because the mechanic to do so remains, you no longer can regularly outbid an opponent and still keep the intended margin, when every update takes away 3% of the margin.
see above… yes, mechanically its still possible
but this is the mechanic they intended to counter
Was it that hard to understand, that I would start updating my orders again to keep my margin when the market adjusted back to the place where I wanted it?
no, most items will not be sold in a reasonable time frame, when you do not update them.
in the case of minerals and ammunition, that does affect the price fluctuation, because even 0,01isk is a price % that can not always be ignored
and in the case of expensive modules and such, 0.01 isking was never an wiedly used mechanic. If you want to create your own margin you’d have to drop the price by 10, 25, 50 mil or more so that other people would not follow up. With the new mechanic, that is no longer a viable option, because you still loose 3-4% of the margin every time you do it.
I did not know of those, January 2019, I was about a month into eve and didnt care about patches, I see your point in those regards
but consider, that the market has had its share of updates as well… in November (I think) CCP literally DOUBLED the taxes and broker fees, so that they went from 8% to about 15% for me, with near perfect trade skills
I do not see the logic behind that…
although that is a possibility, you’re right that it would take a big chuck of players out of the game…
abut as someone who spend the last 48h soaking up how production and invention works to counter the loss of the trading profits
the fees in that area are ridiculously low, especially manufacturing itself.
another big isk sink would also be to REMOVE THE F****NG ASSET SAFETY, making contracts and repairing services in stations more expensive…
there are so many little things that have an effect if changed, you dont always have to attack the big obvious one (there is a german saying: Auch Kleinvieh macht Mist… directly translated its along the line of: even small cattle can make a big mess)
yes, and it was ridiculously ineffective
no more basic ores in asteroid belt ad NS ore anomlies, and what are the blocks doing?
They are putting Rorqs into the finished Havens, because there are still basic ores there
…no if i have to put 70b in escrow, 95% of that is just going to sit in my escrow for weeks, until this specific item its bound to is going to get its order fulfilled, whereas before, the isk was not bound to a specific order, but could be used by any of the 300 orders I had
After they introduced CItadels, which lowered all fees by a huge margin. Trading on Citadels after all these patches is still cheaper than trading on NPC stations.
How is items dropping an ISK sink? I still have the feeling, that its about ISK leaving the economy and not ISK leaving a single players wallet.
Im sure, that they will.
Its ether only a small amount, so it has no impact, or a big amount, so people will repair with modules and thats just boring gameplay.
Sure, but why not start with the big points first? If 1 change can fix more, that 10 small ones.
So they adapted and created new gameplay? It still lowers the average income of a Rorq by quite a bit and its much harder to multibox 10. And if you check supercapital prices you would see quite an impact.
So there is now more room for new players to get into the market, because its harder for you, to trade 300 items at once? Sounds great.
as far as I can tell (after 16 months of doing it), most trade considering higher tier items still goes through Jita 4/4. when you get to the things that are upwards of 100m nearly all of the contracts are in Jita
yes,… high volume items usually are in Citadels (or rather one in Perimeter)
Its destroyed wealth. for the economy, it doesnt matter if its isk that you destroy, minerals, or a ship
if its gone, its gone. Right now you pay 10% recovery fee, wich is an isk sink… but you get 90% of the wealth in Asset safety back.
if we kill asset safety, most of that would be destroyed (yes, technically 50% of it might remain due to drop rates and stuff) but its still a lot more than it is now
yeah,… probably
I just hope they dont overdo it
because they already did the big stuff…
I still dont know if I can continue to play eve. I dont have the time to invest another 16 months learning the market ad getting to a point where it can sustain my playing, and although I wont get confirmation of it, I am shure that its the same for other people as well.
Introducing more smaller changes is always a better option than one big one. the chance of smaller changes disrupting the playstyle of so many player so strongly is margins smaller that introducing one big change
It is as difficult for a newbe to get into the market as it is for me
I might not be able to sustain my 70b escrow, but he might is going to be equally unable to sustain his 5b escrow
, since relisting eats most of the profits.
