so you guys ran out of ideas to make command ships the proper fc ship you wanted to make???
let alone make commandships actually good…
I think this ship need booster hold to minor modify ship attribute when fighting.
Nasar Vyron
Now it’s just the perfect drone bunny and anchor ship
Perfect?
It can only control the drones of 10 fleet members (unless it is gilas or rattles) - Far from prefect.
It can still be scrammed webbed bubbled - Far from perfect.
It has a reasonable tank, that is about all it has going for it and given this is Eve I don’t see its tank being much of an advantage for too long…
Nor do I, but it’s perfect by comparison for what exists for those purposes. Read anything I’ve written here, you’d see I’m still very much against this ship because it doesn’t actually accomplish anything it was designed to do. And what it was designed to do shouldn’t have even been something the Devs were willing to give the time of day to let alone actually implement.
Limiting the ship to where it has one and only one possible purpose it going too far.
Even the Venture can do a LITTLE more than mine, if you really, really want it too, though it is obviously a specialized craft. Specialization is fine, making an almost useless portable observation platform is going too far.
ZERO cargo space?!? - Really??? IT should have at least the cargo capacity of a small frigate, for cryin’ out loud.
This and other things about the Monitor Flag Cruiser are absolutely, entirely, and completely outside of any stretch of “Simulation”, Game logic, or any realism whatsoever. The ship should make SOME sense after all.
There is no way whatsoever that anyone would build such an extremely limited and utterly handicapped ship, and the fact that it would have ZERO cargo space is absurd, especially with something anywhere near a Cruiser class ship.
No modules other than propulsion?!? Also unrealistic, irrational and absurd. For it’s mere stated purpose, outside of any resistances, it should at least be able to fit electronic counter-measures for its own defense.
There could also have been and likely have been any number of responses to this subject asserting that there are applicable fitting and modules that would merely add some flexibility to the strict purpose intended for this ship, for instance, it should definitely b e capable of Target Painting and Command Burst types of modules.
The mere idea of a ship, other than the venerable shuttles that almost nobody uses for anything, because they are useless junk compared to even a tech 1 frigate, having almost no fitting of any modules at all other than propulsion is just plain insane and stupid, what the hell are they thinking?!?
The ship would of course have to be limited, I doubt many people argue against that, but taking things to absurd extremes that have absolutely no basis in “simulation”, game logic, realism, practicality or rational thought is just nonsense and a waste of everyone’s time, and any effort to bring it about.
The general concept of the Monitor Flag Cruiser is great, is a very good idea, and is being completely trashed by this over-reaction to potential potentials and developer paranoia.
Go forward with it, by all means, but do so with some sense of practical realism for god’s sake.
Does anyone actually have this ship now?
And the first one has died - https://zkillboard.com/kill/68912742/ after taking a mere 34,324 damage… Hmmm, didn’t tank a great deal, seems 296K EHP don’t count for much after-all.
Means no reps were received or very little, I’ll be honest, I don’t know what it’s base HP is. Damage taken doesn’t take into account resists if you didn’t know.
Killmails only ever show the damage actually received, not the amount delivered, so this is normal.
Could have been increased with reps, but in any case killmails don’t record EHP, they just record actual damage, which is HP.
More importantly did the engagement last any longer, or did the FC still die quickly and then everyone else run away?
It looks like it was a test more than anything (or to just be the first). Goon killed by Goon in 1DQ1 (Goonswarm home system).
There was no fleet fight involved.
Ah right, so ‘Move along please, nothing to see…’
I’m aware of all that. Thing is, it only tanked about the same as a well fit T2 cruiser and a lot less than a dedicated command ship.
Both of which would tank far more with remote reps. So really the question is, what is the point of a ship that can’t contribute to the fleet in any meaningful way and dies as easily as a T2 cruiser?
If this slightly modified Gnosis requires dedicated logi to keep it alive for more than the 45 seconds it took that niddy to kill it, does it really have a place in fleets?
Or is it more likely to become a burden on logi just to keep an FC alive a bit longer?
I’d like to hear from Killah Bee (he is an FC that tends to get head shot a lot) on how he feels this thing would perform in a real fight…
I may be new to the game and not investing in Plex, but I think the bottom line is that if it can be killed without too much difficulty, especially when it does not involve a fleet, it is a waste of time and concept. The whole point was supposed to be to survive ‘head-shotting’ in engagements, and if it cannot endure head-shotting attempts for very long, than it would be better to have a well set-up battleship, or a dreadnought or something else. Its essentially a tiny space station shaped like a ship, it is an observation platform, and nothing more.
If we were to compare this with and basis in reality or history, on battlegrounds it was forbidden to try to take out the leader(s) for a number of reasons. If CCP/EVE is serious about the concept itself for valid reasons, then whatever ship or platform they used would have to have much more HP/EHP and armor, to be almost indestructible, otherwise, those who do the head-shotting would simply see it as a goal to blow up the commanding ship anyway, or see how much it takes to do so, and might end up considering such flag ships as trophy’s, bragging points, or reputation boosters.
As far as design and fitting, there should be NO limit on armor modules, such a ship should have at least as many slots for armor as a battleship. Dreadnoughts and Capital ships of some sort are the logical ships for commanders in the first place.
The logical design and fitting for this purpose (Capital/Command/Flagship) would be:
#1: Something at least the size of a battleship, or a new class of semi-dreadnought that can use jump gates.
#2: Full compliment of armor slots
#3: Full capability of command burst and similar/related modules/slots
#4: MAYBE no weapons or drones capability, but maybe repair drones would be a logical minimum.
#5: Propulsion has already been covered.
#6: Advanced/prolonged Cloaking should definitely be allowed
Perspective: Keep this in mind…
If you were a ship designer/builder what and how would you design and build for commanders?!?
Would you build in serious limitations and weaknesses so that nobody would complain???
You want the commander to be able to do their job without being head-shotted, that has already been established from the start, so Heavy armor (HP/EHP) , superior cloaking, and command modules of any and all sorts would not just be priorities, but absolutely required by any sane stretch of the imagination.
It would also make sense to be able to command drones from subordinate ships even if the flagship had no drone bay of its own.
The concept of this flagship is a very good one, but nonsense and politics seem to be the priorities in its design, which aside from being wrong-headed, is a good way to screw up what would be a very good idea into being something that either will be a flop that nobody wants or worse.
My prediction, sorry to say, is that politics and game-balance paranoia will doom this good idea into being a flop of some sort. I hope I am wrong about that.
I would say to not be against the ship, but its design. The originating concept is a good and valid one, CCP/EVE is just screwing up the design for politics and game-balance paranoia.
“A Ship” of this sort should come into being, but done right, not this serious candidate for a flop.
- “There was no fleet fight involved.”
- Test failed, lol…
“It can still be scrammed webbed bubbled - Far from perfect.”
From what I have observed, many battles consist of the lead ships. battle ships, etc. essentially sitting in place, so on one hand keeping them from going anywhere might not be a big problem for them, and on the other hand, if that is happening, than other ships would be targeting those doing the webbing, etc. anyway, (hopefully) so it would not last too long, and not keep the fleet from jumping for long.
I think you may have this wrong, lol…
Having their cake and eating it too?!?
If one cannot kill, and only be killed; never get the credit for kills but be the subject of kill mails, then that’s more like you’re the one serving the cake, but you don’t get to eat any, lol…
- Except that it has some obscene appendage hanging under it, lol…
I would disagree with you on one point at least"
#1: Commanders should be able to do whatever the hell they want, however they want, flying whatever they want to, as long as they can handle the task and are good at it.
#2: I think a very fast, cloaked command frigate (yes, I said frigate) built around an over-sized power core, with anything you can do to make it as hard to hit and destroy as possible would be the best ship for a commander. That means serious capabilities for electronic warfare to keep from being targeted or hit in the first place. and serious shields to reduce any form of secondary damage.
This way a commander could see everything, get to a ‘perch’ or place of better observation/perspective as quickly as possible, and if the enemy can’t hit you, then armor becomes secondary.
Commanders need a superior perspective and awareness of what is going on, first and foremost, in order to make good decisions.