But then you don’t get to complain about it, hence the “hypocrite” option.
Absolutely untrue. ‘Dammit, CCP, make it so we don’t have to do this’.
To claim that you can’t express dissatisfaction if circumstances force you to do something you don’t want to is… well, ludicrous. It’d mean ‘you can’t complain about taxes because you paid taxes’, ‘you can’t complain about climate change because your job requires you to drive’.
Or, you know, ‘you can’t complain about this thread STILL being in Slow Mode after 3d when they said it’d last one day, because you’re posting in it’.
You’re comparing RL necessities to the option of using plex or skill injectors in a game…
I’m comparing RL necessities to things which are also necessities for a large chunk of the game. You can argue that it’s a sunk cost fallacy or that we could always just let nullsec empty out, but the fact of the matter is that removing yourself from the system just means you get ignored, and lose all ability to push for changes. If you’re not a paying customer, expect your issues to be nothing they care about.
And if you are a paying customer, then you’re supporting the business model that’s been pretty much driven by PLEX for over a decade, and skill injectors for nearly half of one, and so complicit.
You’re straw manning really hard here, it’s not like you NEED skill injectors. Then again I don’t know anything on zero space life so that might be me.
My point remains: if you’re fine with skill injectors et all but you’re not fine with temporary basic skills for newbies at almost no cost, then your perspective is wonky.
good thing u brought up the ‘‘new player experience’’
in some perspective im a new player, i tried eve years ago, and then again and again (just came back to it like 1month ago because the whole mmorpg market is dead and full of p2w crap)
but the thing that always made me quit… PAY THIS PAY THAT AND MULTIBOTING!
just go back to 15euro per month or ■■■■ off!
that way everyone will be happy and if u dont have the 15$ per month then go get a job and dont think about gaming lol
but i guess game addicted kids spend muuuuuuuch more on plex than just the 15$ per month…
thats some sort of abuse of children and addiction in my opinion… shame on you ccp
EDIT:
i also asked a ton of my RL friends if they wanna try this game and told them how awesome it is,… the moment they saw the plex system they all jumpd off xD
and to say the truth i will do the same once star citizen is released… the bad taste of p2w is just too big in this game. sure, even if u cant really win with money its still a game changer and a really bad one!
Well there’s a firm deadline.
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dont get me wrong, i love eve but if i could choose between a eve server with or without plex i think most of us would go on the no plex server
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I think if you’re openly saying ‘you can’t really win with money’, then any p2w ‘bad taste’ is more like the taste of sour grapes. It’s not a game changer. It’s a great way to waste RL money and get the expensive stuff you bought with it blown up—because bling doesn’t really win. Knowing what fights to take and what fights to avoid is what wins. Bringing friends is what wins. Knowing the performance of your ship and how to ride the ragged edge wins.
Throwing money at the problem in EVE might win a single fight here or there, but overall, it’s a great way to lose.
And I, for one, love it when wallet warriors lose, and lose big.
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but in the end its a fact that new players jump off because plex and the other web shop features
all of my friends did say they love eve after hearing what awesome features it has,… the moment they saw the webmoney shop and p2w plex feature they all jumpd off…
around 8 people,… most of em scifi space ship freaks… and they dont wanna play eve because plex…
i guess when we will get the first eve emu freeshard we will see what people will prefer 
Then you failed at explaining what EVE is about.
It’s funny, I’m curious if any of your friends know F2P mmo without microtransactions…
so eve isnt a sandbox mmorpg?
the moment i told em u can buy anything with RL money my friends said P2W
is that wrong?
what in this is wrong? please explain what plex is xDDDDDD
I CAN BUY ALMOST ANY ITEM AND EVEN SKILLS WITH RL MONEY!!!
that isnt p2w?! xD i guess u started playing mmos some years ago?
back in the day we did not needed that ■■■■ and only because generation brainless mobilephone zombies
but hey all i can say, gimme a NO PLEX- EVE version and i will quit* this plex server in no time and believe me 90% will do the same
well im not sure about them but im playing mmos since 1996 so yea i could give u a pretty nice list of the mmos ive playd which did not have that p2w crap!
sure alot of the older mmos got p2w features added over the last years BUT thats also the reason why everyone is playing these games on freeshards now 
another good example is wow classic, its again king of all mmos and u can NOT buy gold from blizz (maybe for modern wow but who the ■■■■ cares about that crap singleplayer game? xD)
sure u can buy em illegal but thats the same stuff like using hacks, or stealing accounts etc, ITS ILLEGAL!
another good example is SWG
its isnt alive anymore but the community is playing on SWGEMU and since the server got full of bots and people start selling gold and jedis on websites the whole server died
i guess this is the same reason why eve lost half of its current pop?
again if u let people choose between a p2w eve or a eve without plex and all the crap believe me
we would all play on no plex server! atleast most of us haha
GTC’s where introduced around 2004 or 2006. They allowed to exchange RL money for isk. PLEX was introduced around 2008.
Saying that PLEX or exchanging money to isk is reason for population drop is dumbest argument I heard for a long time.
u know the diffrence between a argument and a question right? 
so do u think plex did increase the gameplay value and population of eve?
It’s in game since almost beginning. It didn’t have impact because ability to use RL money to gain isk was always available.
I started playing MMOs before MMOs were MMOs—when they were MUDs. So, speaking as someone who was there when ‘back in the day’ meant ‘the 1980s’… you clearly haven’t understood the first thing about EVE.
Yes, you can buy almost any item, and even SP, with a transaction chain originating in RL money1. That won’t get you anything in EVE except the feeling of ‘I’m a damned idiot’. Items don’t help you. SP doesn’t actually give you any skill at playing EVE, and EVE is a more complex system than any other five MMOs combined.
And no, when you can throw every penny in the world at the game and ultimately, it won’t help you do anything but give everyone else a ridiculously-expensive killmail… that’s not p2w. That p2L.
Don’t believe me? Go ahead. Spend $1000 on blinging yourself out a ship. Come put it on either side of the T5ZI/1DQ1 gate. See what happens.
EVE is F2W. The real ‘cheat code’ to success in EVE is friends. People. No matter what path you choose, it’s all about people, not payments.
No. EVE’s population decline isn’t the result of bots or PLEX. It’s the result of a large number of factors. Some of them aren’t even part of the game. They’re things like an aging playerbase having a lot more demands on their time. Or people just finding games they liked better over the last eighteen years. Peoples’ tastes change. They get tired of things. They want new experiences.
And EVE, being eighteen years old, isn’t actually attracting a huge number of new players. The marketing for the game’s pretty damned weak, too. They put EVE on Steam! But when’s the last time EVE-on-Steam had anything on the front page? When’s the last time they did any kind of Steam deal to get press?
All that aside, there are in-game reasons for the decline, too. The high-water mark comes in 2011-2012. Then changes started coming that were targeted at breaking up nullsec, rather than letting nullsec’s internal pressures break groups up and cause cascade effects the way they had. Each time they pushed, they pushed players away.
AEGIS sov in 2015 was an attempt to fix it, but by making large, sweeping things small, and that was never going to work. 2017, they mucked with Rorqs, and ignore us telling them ‘this is a bad change and it will cause problems in the long term’. Well, it caused problems alright. And we’ve basically had 5 years of that pattern, where CCP’s ignored the things the players have told them were problems, and problems just got worse.
That has been a massive contributor to the loss of active players… PLEX… has not.
1. pssssst That’s true of old-school subscription games, too: everything you get originates in you paying money to the game company. Shocking!
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People keep using that fallacy, and it is a fallacy.
Lets have a look at, say, WOW. If there’s be a weapon on the store that does 5 times as much dps as any other weapon ever and with amazing bonuses, and you can buy it for rl money OR you have to play for 10 years and get all achievements, then that is P2W because realistically most people will never get it. Then some apologist (you in this case) comes along and says “but he can still lose a fight, what happens if he has to fight 17 people he’ll still die. So it’s clearly not P2W nunuh”.
That’s dumb.
If 2 equivalent players in knowledge and experience, in the same ship with the same fit fight each other then the one will all the support skills maxed out, everything to 5 will probably win from the one with starting skills. So the one who injected skills going to win from the one who didn’t.
Just call it what it is, injectors are P2W. Not that I have a problem with it, it’s a direct result of player’s “power” progressing at a fixed and slow rate.
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No, it’s not. It’s not ‘pay to win’, because the gear isn’t a real deciding factor. This isn’t ‘he can lose a fight’, it’s ‘he will lose the fight, and the moment he does, that gear’s gone, and someone else likely has it now’.
This is different from (to use your example) WoW, because in WoW, losing a fight means nothing. Oh no, he lost. He’s still got his shiny legendary. He’s still using it. In EVE, he’s not.
If two equivalent players in knowledge and experience, in the same ship with the same fit fight each other, no, it’s not a simple ‘whoever had the better skills trained wins’ equation. Do the skills influence things? Yep. But they don’t decide the matter. Having the same knowledge and experience doesn’t make you as good. Experience is great, but not everyone gets the same benefit from a certain degree of experience.
And frankly, if two equivalent players in EVE go at it, and one of them is injecting skills, how will you ever know? Are you auditing someone’s skill points? Did he ever invest RL $$ into those injectors? I know plenty of people who’ve used injectors without themselves ever spending a single bit of RL money on it. Just buy them with ISK. Remember: the guy getting the injector is almost never the one spending the money. The RL money goes to PLEX, which get turned into extractors. The guy with the injectors spent ISK to get them.
As for this nonsense…
Lemme show you power…
You know who did that? A character less than a month old, in a frigate, who shot a jammer before it anchored, so it couldn’t be immediately onlined. He did that. He caused all of that destruction.
That’s power.
Power, in EVE, doesn’t come from gear. It doesn’t come from SP. It doesn’t come from any of the bullcrap that people who get obsessed over p2w get their panties in a bunch about.
Power comes from numbers. This is EVE Online, and if two equivalent players in knowledge and experience, in the same ship, with the same fit, fight each other, one of them screwed up, and should have brought a second guy. The guy who wins? He should’ve expected a second guy, and brought two friends of his own.
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