Hee. “Half-bred mutt.” … As though your words had power to hurt. Or are they your words? Or are they his, perhaps?
I wonder what you actually think and believe, poor puppet.
I wonder, do you wonder, also?
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Why would an accurate descriptor hurt?
Not at all.
She may not wonder, but her words certainly wander.
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Inaccurate descriptors don’t hurt either as the subject of the description knows they’re not that thing. So, what’s the point of the name calling again?
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Good grief, I knew the Amarr were racists and xenophobes but I suppose I never really thought about just how bad the Caldari were as well (aside from miscreants like Kim) until reading Pilot Gesakaarin’s posts. Very eye opening and I suspect more representative of the state of the current Caldari citizens’ views than we might like to think.
It seems their alliance with the Amarr is one of more than simple commercial and political convenience. No wonder they get along so well.
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…nothing more than a non-aggression treaty. Neither one is actually obligated to aid the other.
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Yeah. Tibus Heth didn’t just precipitate out of the ether with a glowing third eye and a horn growing out of his forehead, no. Nor were the Provists spontaneously generated out of worn-out factory parts and machine grease.
The Templis Dragonaurs are kind of an enduring shadow in Caldari society. They represent a lot of stuff most Caldari see as virtues-- it’s pretty much about home and hearth for them, as for most, just, they construe it more narrowly than most.
Pieter’s the better actual guide to what Caldari in general are really like, though-- though like most capsuleers he’s a bit more cosmopolitan, now, than he probably was starting out. So. Take Pieter, add a sprinking of Veik (finely ground after sifting out her own history of world travel), and you probably have something close to a typical Kaalakiota Civire.
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You keep pointing this out, Arrendis. It’s true, but kind of irrelevant in light of the point that they do aid each other. Not always, but, if you think the State’s going to sit back and watch the Empire get destroyed at some point without acting to defend it … you might not understand the State’s priorities very well.
It’s not a mutual defense treaty. It’s a balance of power. If you wanted the State to distance itself from the Empire to a degree where it wouldn’t help out, you’d have to eliminate the Federation as a threat. Otherwise, the two are bound together by their mutual desire not to be left at the mercy of the Federation and Republic.
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Leaving aside the rantings of a Lob-ottom-ized maniac, Aria, the major thrust of the thread hangs on the very fact that it’s only a non-aggression treaty: the State currently assists the Empire out of mutual self-interest. However, by doing so, they work against their long-term interests by propping up a foreign power that is ideologically committed to overthrowing the State.
That’s the long-term goal for the Empire, no way around it.
Meanwhile, they could be pursuing a diplomatic strategy of realignment. That would isolate each of the expansionist powers, by recognizing the mutual interest the State and Republic have in self-determination and recovering what has been taken from them by the expansionists. It doesn’t mean they have to cross-pollinate. I don’t particularly think either the State or the Tribes would want a sudden influx of Someone Else’s Culture™. It is, after all, precisely that which both have rejected.
So while I may point out the hypocrisy in the Caldari position of ‘we hate oppressors who tried to corrupt our culture oh and by the way we’re taking over Achura so they better conform’, it’s not like I particularly oppose the Caldari desire for cultural purity. They should do what’s right for them. They just shouldn’t go trying to climb up on any moral high horse about it.
As I’ve said before: We’re actually natural allies. We share a lot of very basic political interests. We’d do better allying with one another, because the Federation and Empire won’t.
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It’s kind of fascinating, actually: the Empire and Federation have a free trade agreement. You’re probably right about that, though.
It’s an interesting idea, but, here’s a little sticking point: the Federation was largely responsible for arming the Minmatar rebellion, right? Relations since have gotten a little grim and contentious, but, I kinda don’t think the Matari have forgotten that, actually, and the Caldari are, for sure, aware of it.
If the Federation invaded the State in earnest, would the Matari really fight the people who played such a role in freeing them?
Maybe they would. But. Maybe not.
As for Amarrian dogma and doctrine on the Reclaiming…
Given the current balance of power, it’s in the State’s interest to (1) keep an ally at its side and (2) keep hungry eyes off of its people and territory. The Empire’s a big, scary friend to have-- largest population of any empire (the State’s is the smallest). Sure it’ll get dangerous if the current balance of power breaks, but in the meantime the State can safely tell Amarrian missionaries to take a hike (defending the culture) while trading with it and the Khanid Kingdom (if you can still really see that as a separate entity) and maintaining and building its own population and military strength.
Additionally, while a Caldari/Amarr marriage of convenience sustains the current stalemate, a Caldari/Matari one would likely destabilize it (which is the idea, yes?). But why would the Caldari want that?
I’ve seen you and Miz argue over whether time favors the Empire against the Republic; against basically all comers, time definitely favors the State. Caldari use summer to ready for winter, and they pursue those preparations zealously. The longer the balance lasts, the stronger the State’ll be if/when it breaks. Stalemate works in the State’s favor, whether the Amarr become an eventual enemy or not. Given the choice of a dangerous friend in a relatively stable world and a maybe-better friend in a more dangerous one, the State will probably tend to take the one that better guarantees its safety-- the more stable world.
That same stable world blunts the teeth on the Empire’s ambitions, and on the Federation’s. Exactly to the State’s preference.
So, there we go.
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If the Federation were to once more become an oppressor power seeking to force another people to bend to their will, I don’t really see how the Matari could, in conscience, not oppose them.
And no, a Caldari/Matari alliance would likely not destabilize things, because the Empire really couldn’t afford to commit to a campaign against the State. Moving assets toward the Caldari Front means moving assets away from the Republic front. If anything, it provides more stability, because the Federation and Empire have their own history of ideological and military confrontations. The Federation, as you’ve pointed out, cost the Empire the Matari worlds out of ideological principle, and the Empire is committed to the eventual Reclaiming of the Federation. Neither one can trust the other at all. They would each cheerfully work to subvert the social order within the other.
Instead, the Matari have no desire to subvert the State’s social order, and every reason to want to see the State continue to grow in strength. Minmatar ship and weapons technology is generally held to be less advanced than that of the Federation or Empire, and yet, experience shows a rough parity of performance, meaning the Minmatar are getting more out of less. The Caldari, on the other hand, are using cutting-edge technology, and putting it to good use.
If the Caldari technological advantage were combined with the Matari optimization and performance-tuning… Summer’s preparations could only accelerate.
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This is hilarious, Ms Rella. You’re acting like the U-Nats never happened and you’re also acting like there’s no isolationist segment of the Matari race.
Bottom line? There are aggressive nationalists in every polity and ALL of them think that they are massively superior to other races. Here’s another lesson for you - when you scratch someone claiming that all of their race are superior to other races, you’ll usually uncover someone who also believes they are superior to the other members of their own race.
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The Caldari position is, at baseline, to trade with all but ally with none. We actually dislike that we’ve had to take an active alliance for precisely the reason that whilst alliances bring friends, they also bring enemies.
Sadly the Federation seems hell-bent on maintaining the stance that they are superior to all others, and that their culture must be spread to all corners of the Cluster by any means necessary to achieve that end. In that respect they are very similar to the Empire, even down to the claim that it’s for the victim’s own good.
As for the technology piece of your statement, I’ve always had a healthy respect for what the Matari have managed to achieve, technologically. I’m sure that many of the Megas would appreciate a relationship that allowed all the benefits of trade and cooperation, with none of the threats to culture and social order.
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As some of you may know, I have long advocated for increased Matari-Caldari relations. The discussion between Pilots Jenneth and Arrendis, do a good job of exploring the various nuances of such a development, however I personally believe that at this current point in time, Pilot Jenneth holds a stronger point.
Both Empires, I believe, are aware of the realities that each other face. Nor do I believe that the expansionist empires that we have respectively aligned with would allow such a change in the Status Quo. This does not mean that meaningful advances could not be made that do not conflict with the current state of affairs.
From a pragmatic view, I think the first approuch should a simple non-agression act between the two empires. It is my understanding that such a pact exists in practice. Members of each may face against each other as they fight in the proxy wars, however the the Empires themselves have not initiated a conflict between them. Formalizing this pact would go along way to first establish a diplomatic trust and cement the groundwork for any future cooperation.
A second initiative that should also be put in place is to encourage economic ties. With the State being a capital abundant power, while the Republic a Labor abundant one, there exists a natural trade relationship. This should also run concurrent to State investment in the Tribal Republic; which would mutually be benificial to both parties, not just economically, but also with their political objectives. I personally have worked toward this, having already received a delegation of Caldari interested in the possibility of investing in my corporation. Their help would greatly increase the ability of Aloga Industries carrying out our Mission statement and strengthening the Republic’s Economy.
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Caldari/Minmatar relations are really a disgusting concept.
Having interactions with several representatives of this nation, I will strongly claim I do not have to do anything with these people and I would prefer to keep them as far as possible from the borders of our State.
Besides, there was already an attempt of creating some sort of capsuleer Caldari-Minmatar alliance. It has failed, that wasn’t surprising.
I can’t tell what Minmatars should or shouldn’t do, but I can address our citizens and those, who consider themselves to be loyal to our State:
Do not step on the same rake twice.
Shut the hell up Kim you racist little git.
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If one desires a thaw in Caldari/Minmatar relations then the importance of fostering bilateral trade cannot be understated. Throughout history, free trade has helped to keep the peace for it provides a vested interest between trading partners in which war is seen as more detrimental than the benefits of peaceful trading. In addition, the expansion of trade would also see increased contact between Caldari and Minmatar with (hopefully) an increase in understanding between our people.
However, in the past there has been at times an expectation by Minmatar that any alliance with Caldari would require first that the State fight against Imperial slavery. This expectation has failed to recognize that the State has no desire to expend blood and treasure in a fight that it feels it has no stake in. A strong trading relationship conducted through preferential agreements would make an alliance with the Republic more of a choice than it is now, given the size of Imperial export markets for State goods which realistically would see a punitive reduction on the part of the Amarr in doing so.
As has already been pointed out, an alliance between the State and Republic would confer political and military advantages. Both the Federation and the Empire claim leadership over all of humanity whether it is to conquer all under God, or to “liberate” everyone by telling others how they must live according to a narrow conception of freedom. This makes them diametrically opposed to each other, the Federation cannot abide theocratic slavery and absolutist rulers, and neither can the Empire abide a reduction in the power of their Holders or an emancipation of their slaves according to Gallentean ideology.
This would leave a State/Republic alliance to watch both Federation and Empire left at odds with each other without the potential of dragging either Caldari or Minmatar into their ideological and religious conflict.
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A minmatar, ladies and gentlemen.
Anyone wants to make any relations with this specimen?
Case in point.
I think we’re all astute enough to spot an overgeneralization when we see one.
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She has far more friends and supporters than you will ever have.
Take a look in the mirror sometimes. Or did you shatter that mirror and throw the shards out of the airlock already?
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