Outside of a completely controlled arena this will never be the case. All ships in Eve have strengths and weaknesses. Without making every ship exactly the same there is going to be scenarios in open world where ships in the same class can’t “trade blows” with certain other ships, where certain fits excel at certain functions and not others, etc.
Even the dreaded cloaky has plenty of weakness built in to their hulls and you have local so they have no actual stealth to begin with! The afk cloaking whiners lose not by “trading blows” but before the blows even happen due to psychology.
Because local is so powerful against cloaking, roamers, filaments, anything pretty much as a catch all. You see local spike and see who it is instantly. The only way to counter this is to introduce a fog of war. The current way local works (100% free perfect Intel 24/7/365) the only fog of war is the “afk cloaky” because you don’t know if they are active or not but you still know they are there.
With this new tool you will now know they are there 100% from local and active/aggressive 100% from the deployable. Then stack on T1 the cyno changes letting them know 100% if you have a cyno. Etc.
With each update Eve is removing any fog of war or unknown factor and favoring pre arranged or timer fights where people only fight because of n+1 ( or pure boredom if they can’t outnumber the enemy). Both sides know exactly what the other has in numbers and fits well in advance.
This also removes more small gang and guerilla warfare tactics from smaller groups. Can’t n+1 the enemy too bad get a bigger blob. Imagine having a blob and wining that a single afk pilot in system is shutting downb everything and chiseling the indexes. See the blob doesn’t want to fight either or the afk cloaky wouldn’t be a problem to begin with.
Yeah okay EVE is unfair. So stop you’re crying about cloak camping is not gonna be as powerful anymore.
I’d like to also point out that we both are theorizing about the change at this stage.
I’m pretty sure there will be no change whatsoever. You are theorizing the entire world will come to an end.
and I’m also kinda tired to see y’all with these one-sided perspectives.
“oh no my 40m stelth bomber already have a chink in its armor and its not perfect as is, this will make it self-destruct upon undocking!!1!”
no, it won’t.
I also like to remind you that you invested 40m into a ship, that in a 10-20-30 man group can bring down a 40b ship super rather quick and painless.
with that in mind… please?
just STFU about this new garbage item, that won’t even impact you and your blops friends in any meaningful way. and if it does impact you. well just STFU anyways. you have absolutely no ■■■■■■■ position to argue these change, even though you might think you have.
Coming from someone that only wants more safety and “chivalrous pvp”. Lol
It’s not enough to gain more safety by simply nerfing “afk cloaking”. There is no sides of perspective or balance in your words such as including a change to local. Active players of many professions - not only hunters have their gameplay degraded in the process with this deployable. All so you can feel 100% safe ratting in your unsupported
Deary me, another load of nonsense from another carebear trying to make out they know what they’re talking about
I should go over to threads about mining giving it the big I am and letting all the regular miners know that they’re wrong about mining updates. I did once use an Osprey so I’m practically an expert by the standards of this thread.
Imagine being a blops hunter and thinking it actually requires more brains to blop hunt then being a pve player… lol.
I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.
If you’d actually bother to look up the item and test it out on sisi, you would know it’s useless UNLESS your a 24/7 cloaky AFK (for more then 21 min) hunter, deployed to fearmonger a region.
“how dare you speak to me mr noob carebear…” - i’m a leet cloaky hunter n all… REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE my life matters!!!1!!1!!" * rofl.
make no mistake, in eve your never 100% safe. I have been saying for a while now that this item won’t make a difference, so no, it’s not at all about me being “safe with this item” etc etc etc… “so you shouldn’t try to change it” etc…
I’m saying that you both should STFU because this item will not even change your “beloved” playstyle. (by your words, you are cloaky l33t camper that breath pvp… you a leet hunter n all… >lol< cant even manage to kill 20k ehp structures … zzz )
all you do is sit with your crystal ball and cry you cant farm easy kills, trying to make it sounds like there is some kind of l33t big brain tactics behind being a cloaky hunter.
Oh dear … how dare CCP make you a tiny bit vulnerable!!!
ps. WELCOME TO EVE 2021. we are all getting shafted.
cloaky hunters get a tiny shaft… oh my… everyone stop what they doing and put the forums on slow-mode… WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THE SNOWFLAKES.
PvE players have been shafted for 2 years now… who cares … lol… “carebears are sub-humans anyways rofl…”
(not like pve players are the back bone of eve or something…)
If you’d actually bother to know what your talking about you’d know that this module does more than do anything to
cloakers.
If that’s all it did then there would be no issue.
If you’d actually bother to know what your talking about you’d know that 15 minutes is less than the time it takes to hunt just about anything, especially when they can see your there in local. Hunting is about patience and waiting for opportunity. I have actively kept near blob fleets for hours looking for the right moment. You can’t have either if as soon as you come in they see you there and can decloak you even if your active before you can even get in position. Every less than 15 minutes you have to stop, warp off, recloak, come back and start over. That process is included in the 15 minutes so really you have 5-10 minutes. You aren’t going to hang around for the 40% chance your paper thin ship gets decloakd in a bad position. 5-10 minutes is not enough time to even navigate around moving enemies or space trash.
We haven’t even gotten to the issues with active explorers haulers etc either that may be there and you don’t like them but now they too have to deal with this bs, not to mention anyone active in a T1 cloak that can’t just warp away to recloak. All in the name of getting the “afk cloaky”.
Then let’s talk about the stand up fight bs. Since with the new module decloaking actives cloaky hunting will be pretty pointless. As the defender you have unlimited upships in the citadels right there plus the Intel of local. You can outnumber and outgun anything that comes in unless or choose to be invincible in the safety of tether and structure dock. You have all the advantages already.
Of course you want to remove the last remaining chinks in your armor. The last remaining unknown factor. I get bear, it’s in your nature.
There are plenty of counters the blob can use to defend themselves. We are already vulnerable but your too lazy. Easier to have devs trash the game then to learn I get it.
Basically all this discussion has yielded is the following:
CCP is not being honest that they want to only Nerf afk cloaking. If they did then they wouldn’t see the need to decloak active players. Especially because even if the observatory didn’t decloak actives it would let people know accurately they are active. This Intel in itself increases safety many times over.
no matter what they do it will not be enough to satisfy the bears. It’s not enough to have everything already way stacked in the defenders favor they want more and it doesn’t matter what gets destroyed in the process.
Yes and if you took the time to get informed youd knew the mobile observatory uncloak you after 18 min. or… it has a chance to uncloak every 6 min, and you are immun for 15min.
if cloaky camping is about patience and waiting… i guess you could spend those 18 minuts burning new bookmarks - out of range of dscan and re-enable your 15 min immunity whiile you at it… I’m done beating a deadhorse. Everything has been said.
as i said in post about yours. TL;DR. No one is happy with this new observatory.
We? I think, all would be happy with a systemwide projection that would make cloak use fuel to power up and that ships had a limited fuelbay - aka a limited cloak time.
These system projected effect would not exist in hisec or wormhole space.
as an example:
capital has the biggest fuelbay / cloak time. 24hrs?
BS (blackops) has a 90-240min? cargo capacity.
T3C 90-120 min cargo capacity.
covops frigates has 45 min.
yeah, but if it’s all the same, does it matter to you if it’s an observatory or a fuel cost?
if it’s an observatory the “would-be vicitims” pay to not get dunked.
if it was fuel instead, the would-be dunk:ee pay.
for whatever reasons the snowflakes l33t pvp blop hunters don’t like the new observatory… purely for snowflake reasons. that in no way shape or form are connected to their newfound disability to not be able to afk-camp.
So fuel cost makes more sense, it should cost the campers to camp. It should not cost victims a ransom fee not to get bullied.
That still drives the isk sink agenda (so ccp should be onboard?)
makes gas mining even better, a perfect circle of life… with a twist!
world first I know. Kinda hard to wrap your head around at first… but in essence:
l33t PVP players would actually have to pay the pve players and not the other way around
Not true. If it was then active players would not have the test of whether they are active or not be to decloak. This DOES affect players other than AFK cloakies.
So?
Give me a fair argument as to why EVERYONE that’s using a cloak should have no associated cost of beeing 100% safe?
ps. i said only in low and null remember…
I said a system projection in low and null.
Also. nothing has been said as to how much the associated cost should be in isk. just that if anyone is gonna pay anything - to get rid of problems arisen from cloaks, it should be the ones that benefit from having a cloak.
The problem is all in your head. The ACTUAL problem, which is why the AFK cloaking become a thing in the first place is LOCAL. I get it, removing local made so many people cry that CCP gave it back. However something has to give and that means that local needs a NERF - to be made imperfect, at least to constellation chat, region chat, etc. OR cloakers need to have actual stealth, meaning that they disappear from local when they are cloaked unless they chat.
If this happened, then there would be no need for AFK cloakers in the first place, and it would invite the opportunity for active intel tools to make sense. Until then, nerfing one side without the other is problematic.
Okay, strictly speaking the mobile observatories do affect active players too.
But for active players it is a minor inconvenience at most. In all of my gameplay (and I spend a large amount of it cloaked) I would rarely be in a situation where I could be decloaked by these observatories. And even if it happened, I could cloak back up.
It shouldn’t affect the gameplay of active cloaked players. There was just one legitimate issue I saw with it for active cloaked gameplay that was affected by it and that was the use case of a cloaked capital ship waiting out the 30 minute jump timer. If that issue is solved, there are no forms of active gameplay that would be impacted by this module. (Provided you play around the module of course, you can’t just ignore it).
You seem to be worried that you, as a PvE player, are required to pay to keep afk cloaky campers out:
So fuel cost makes more sense, it should cost the campers to camp. It should not cost victims a ransom fee not to get bullied.
You most likely won’t have to buy and anchor those mobile observatories yourself. The existence of those things in the game is already a deterrent that will likely stop AFK cloaky camping from happening often. And if it does, paying for one or two of those things to catch the cloaky will probably make them stop.
And if it doesn’t, you’ve payed less than their ship’s worth, so I say drop those observatories and get free kills!
100% it matters. It has been explained numerous times.
If you are krabbing in your space and you want to deal with that cloaky camper, pop out an observatory. It will have no effect on me deep in WH space.
Put fuel into the mix and you disrupt every player who uses a cloak. Nobody that I have found has complained with how cloaking works in HS, or WH space, or Pochven. I really haven’t heard much of any complaints in LS.
So why would changing how the module works affecting EVERYONE, just to try and fix AFK cloaky camping, which for the most part is just a nullsec issue?