I came across it in Explaining Hitler: The Search for the Origins of His Evil by Ron Rosenbaum (Explaining Hitler - Wikipedia) and had to look it up as well. I like this term better than golden shower.
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Do you have TLDR version?
Genesis allowed is not
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Way too long for an issue that’s not all that significant. Did not read past the first screen.
The way to deal with unacceptable names is a support ticket. It’s a policy issue that requires properly trained judgement. Discussing other people’s opinions about what is or is not socially acceptable conduct inside a game based on the biases of society outside the game is simply inviting a flame war with potential repercussions.
To be clear, I don’t support abusive or prejudicial names or behavior in the game. I don’t say this thread or the original thread should not have been posted. I do say that if you don’t feel like handling a policy issue using tickets, and you want to air your dirty laundry about it in public, then be prepared to get treated the way any other thread gets treated.
Your opinions and values are no more special or sacred than anyone else’s once you post on these forums, no matter how ‘special’ you think the situation is.
Moderators are generally volunteers, although sometimes a company representative will be involved. They do a time-consuming and generally thankless job, that will always be criticized no matter what choice they make. I’ve seen high-handed and abrupt moderation in these and other forums, and it annoys the heck out of me. For about 10 seconds. Then I remember they’re volunteers, and it’s just a forum, and all this sound and fury will scroll off the page in a matter of weeks, signifying nothing.
If you want to see better moderation, become a moderator and do the job right. If you can’t be arsed to, then I can’t be arsed to read your whining about somebody else doing the job.
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Hello! I’m leaving this thread open for the time being, but I’m also going to be watching it super closely. If anyone has any questions they’d like to ask, feel free to leave it and I’ll try and answer it when possible. I could close this for discussion of moderation, but I’m not going to so long as you fine folk play nice. Sound good?
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Don’t worry my special friend. We’re all very responsible and mature here.
Actually I’m a little upset that you doubted us.
Still love you though.
Moderators, like all humans, are beset by their own prejudices whether that be concious or unconcious. Therefore they are, inherently, protective of their own and prejudicial against others who may target those people/ideas that they hold dear. Hence, no moderator is fair in ‘extremis’. They may try, but they will fail.
I think one of the major problems on these forums is the lack of direct communication with CCP. While the ISDs have a tough job walking a fine line between open communication and preventing “crazy talk”, the lack of direct involvement from the CCP community manager/team in supplying both actual answers and direction to the EVE community’s problems and questions leaves both sides unsatisfied and frustrated. I think a much stronger CCP presence and participation on these boards, while not eleminating the problem, would greatly reduce the general frustration, anger, and general snarky attitude so commonly found. I also think any OP should try to be as factual,even-keeled, and focused to initially guide a directed and reasonable debate, free from initiating a gradually degrading discussion that ends in the hurling of putdowns,thread derailment, and eventual closure by the ISDs.
Course, this is EVE, so perhaps it goes against many players habits. 
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Yeah. But it’s not about your delicate sensitivities. It’s about selective application of the rules.
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Oh, Ouch! SLAMMED back into place yet again by the Verbal Sumo Komando that is the mighty Foggy Bernstein!
As a private company, that is paying out of their pocket for volunteers to travel, I think its well within their right to have selections in place to not keep people out, but for the protections of the disabled or otherwise… and the fact that OP tried to say agist, well, some of the past CSM were on the older side if im not mistaken.
I genuinely and sincerely appreciate this stance for what it’s worth ISD Dorrim Barstorlode. Thank you.
Earlier someone did launch into a sweeping statement type post about, in effect, all moderators, and I did pick them up on it because facilitating a place for those kinds of comments to flourish wasn’t my intention at all, genuinely.
I really do appreciate the fact that you guys must do, at times, what must be a very difficult to impossible job - you’re frequently dammed if you do and dammed if you do not.
My aim genuinely was not really to aim arrows at you as a collective group - and the fact that you have taken this approach is proof is my mind at least that there are clearly people in the mod team who are intelligent and sophisticated enough to see nuance and detail, rather than just the occasional negativity.
Again, thank you.
Fly safe.
Personally I think the notion that ISDs are biased and too aggressive is overstated. A lot of threads are started that raise good points, but the opening thread is written in such a way that either it in itself goes out of bounds or it leads the subsequent conversation itself to go haywire, ultimately leading the thread to be closed.
Let’s take two examples from yesterday:
- One guy wrote a thread about concerns on suicide ganking. Second sentence in and he compares it to gang rape, school shootings, and terrorism. At that points I personally was not going to give him any credence or any consideration. I did not bother reading anything else he had to say; I just lit up the Bat Signal and waited for Batman (aka ISD Dorrim Barstorlode) to come around and save Gotham, which he did as he usually does as ISD MVP. A buddy of mine tracking the same thread said “you know, he actually raised some good points” and I told him that even if the points themselves were worth considering and responding to, I wasn’t going to bother reading them or engaging in a conversation in a thread what was going to be locked down. Your points could have 100% merit, but if you include stupid ■■■■ like that, it’s going to get locked down - don’t accuse ISD for being biased or aggressive.
- The post about ageism and racism and telecommuting being an option for CSM - the problem with that post wasn’t so much the points being raised, it was HOW they were being raised. It should come as no surprise to anyone that it was hard to take OP seriously and that the thread spun out of control based on HOW he presented and supported his arguments. Personally I thought OP was a troll and called him out on it. It wasn’t until he posted a second time that I realized he was serious and was shocked at the absurdity at his delivery mechanism and some of his reasoning (while omitting several good reasons altogether). If you open your thread to be a piñata with plenty of sticks for everyone, don’t be surprised if it gets smacked around and ISD shuts it down regardless of points of merit raised in your opening post.
It’s also worth pointing out that customer support related issues that by their nature cannot be resolved with the support of other players (“Help! I can’t find my assets!”) don’t belong on the forums as a full-fledged discussion. Once they are bumped to customer support, of course the thread should be locked down. Take @Mu_ad_Diib’s example regarding the “bad names” post: there was no need to create a supportive post because the solution was simple: contact customer support. There was no need nor benefit to establish a dialogue with the community on the topic any further. Closing threads such as that, or even permanently removing them from the forums, are not matters of censorship or bias, they are matters of keeping things clean and orderly.
I don’t know why forum users huff and puff when they are told to file support tickets or email communityteam@ccpgames.com for issues that by their nature are sensitive and/or can only be addressed by CCP. Granted, they don’t always addressed your problems in a timely matter or even at all, but what makes you think the forums would be any better?
But going back to the matter of “censorship”: if you don’t want your thread to get shut down, then write it, very, very carefully: don’t go out of bounds, and don’t write it in such a way that the thread is very obviously going to go out of control.
@Mu_ad_Diib opened this thread in such a way that the subsequent discussion has been productive. His opening post was not perceived as a whine or “get over it” thread whereas it very easily could have been and shut down accordingly. Because it was opened well and has proceeded well, MVP ISD Dorrim Barstorlode is permitting it to go on because he acknowledges its constructiveness even if technically some of the conversations itself might be breaking some rules - but acceptably so because the resulting conversation is constructive and harms no one. Similarly, when I posted the ISD Appreciation thread that was linked earlier in this thread, I did so knowing I was breaking some rules, but I also knew the ensuring conversation would be constructive and as such an exception would be made for what was ultimately an exceptional circumstance. I would like to think that both the conversation arising from that thread in conjunction with the incident that “inspired” it are why ISD now have new powers. It goes to show that ISDs are willing to bend the rules if the result is constructive and harms no one.
As for ISD and defamatory users: ISD very, very recently got new temporary ban powers. We hopefully should see the most extreme offenders get bans whose duration increases with each additional offense. Each temporary ban by ISD gets reviewed by CCP. Yes, some of us call each other ■■■■■■■ idiots and imbeciles and whatever every now and then - as long as that doesn’t go out of control in terms of frequency and intensity and hogging up threads, it is what it is. I do agree ISD should, with their newfound powers, be relatively aggressive with certain defamatory language such as racial slurs such as the “N-word” (particularly if it’s not in an EVE RP context given that EVE lore is full of racism) and the word “retard”, etc. Insults as these lies in a spectrum of severity where ISDs should respond accordingly with warnings and when they intervene based on severity and frequency.
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Does this include me?
I think these are fair points and I do respect your opinion here, but I think that they actual extend to all of us - it’s impossible to grow up in a society with prejudices ad not acquire some of your own.
My view has always been that the first step is to acknowledge this as a truth, and the second is to be conscious enough of it that you try to check yourself when you feel them rise to the fore.
Therefore they are, inherently, protective of their own and prejudicial against others who may target those people/ideas that they hold dear. Hence, no moderator is fair in ‘extremis’. They may try, but they will fail.
As far as this goes, while I do respect your view, and I do genuinely, I might disagree because I’m not sure that it is wholly fair or true to apply this to the collective.
It is definitely true is some situations, and I think that’s a given, but what is also true is that there are some very fine people out there, who are aware and conscious of their own prejudices and who successfully circumvent these to make fair, just and objective choices.
Some do fail, but certainly not all, and certainly not all the time either.
Good points as usual.
This might come down to the “quality” of the individual ISD in question. Let’s consider, for example, what top-tier MVP ISD Dorrim Barstorlode did a few hours ago: he temporarily closed a thread, cleaned it up, issued warnings to posters of violating posts, and reopened a thread.
Basically, more ISDs need to do this instead of categorically closing posts, especially now that they have tempban powers by which to enforce their warnings.
Granted, you could say “well, even Barstorlode categorically closes threads”, but I would argue that the only threads I’ve seen him categorically close are the ones that fall under the two criteria I described above: where either the opening post is totally out of bounds, or where the opening post is a written to be piñata where no amount of moderation is going to keep it from getting smacked around.
The only thing I could say is that ISDs could provide leniency on reopening threads if the reopened thread is word crafted to be on a signifcantly tighter leash in terms of scope and bounds so as to not present the problems that had it closed initially. All reopened threads I’ve seen continue to violate the above criteria, so go figure they get shut down - I have yet to see a reopened thread that don’t violate the criteria, so we don’t have a basis on which to evaluate ISD’s current degree of leniency.
On this I agree with you. I do think, however, with threads such as this one and the ISD Appreciation thread I started a while back that they definitely listened to our collective feedback. They took direct action based on our collective feedback and they themselves participated (specifically CCP Aurora on the other thread, who alongside CCP Dopamine really engages with us on the forums and takes our feedback seriously, as well as other ISDs).
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Given the wall of text you just posted, this is a good thing 
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Heyyyyyyy speaking of behavior that needs to be moderated - I have my own thread now! 
https://forums.eveonline.com/t/archer-en-tilavine/244488
I feel so emotionally hurt and violated and I am going to retaliate by WRITING A STRONGLY WORDED LETTER. Buuuuut seriously, since it’s totally relevant to this topic, I wonder how much or how little punishment ISD is going to dish out 
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Oh.
Carry on, then.
I totally agree with this Buoytender Bob. Well said.