Why? Miners didn’t like waste.
Ganking is a neat solution. Player driven. Available to all. Doesn’t require new mechanics.
What could be better? Wardecs?
What part of the fact that all the solo ganker has to do is sit there while the other person has to MOVE their ships…was too difficult for you to comprehend ?
LOL, what part of you’ve never gate camped in your life and have no idea what you’re talking about it is hard to comprehend?
I encourage to actually try and gank someone at the gate. Let me know how it goes 
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Ganking used to be a neat solution…
Until CCP destroyed the predator/prey balance and now most the crop of current gankers feel their entitled to be able to gank barges with a handful of catys.
Buffing ganking isn’t a solution as it’s just distributing who’s doing the multiboxing, one miner with 8 barges, or 4 gankers with two cats each.
Pretty sure they have nerfed ganking over the years including this recent mining patch… What has been buffed though is the amount of people ganking in groups like CODE/Safety etc and the expansion to mission runners, haulers etc by those groups.
Circa 2008-2012 it was very rare to see freighter ganks or bling mission ganks at all. Endless supply of AFK autopiloting freighters–so much so somewhere in 2010 there was a bug after a daily patch that sent all AP routes to lowsec which resulted in a hauler turkeyshoot. But still not common nor was it common for large groups of gankers to amass until Helicity Boson put in timed events like hulkageddon.
Ganking miners though was insanely easy for solo pilots or 1-3 pilots. A solo pilot could take out any exhumer with one shot in 1.0 space they were so thinly tankable (tornado/arty apoc/hurricane) and you could solo up to 3 macks in an ice belt with a single pilot catalyst in 0.5 space. Again it was not super common but there were a handful of folks doing it regularly with elements of RP.
After crimewatch and all of the changes to aggro mechanics, adding suspect, and buffing barges is when the james315 CODE stuff sprung up. RP aside I think part of the allure to gank in groups was also the drastic changes to the highsec wardec mechanics/cost. Prior to 2013 you could wreak warfare/havoc across highsec with privateers/orphanage and any corp could wardec any others until decshield and mechanics changed. No empirical evidence but the time periods align with the shift from individual solo gankers and events to nonstop group ganking.
I would say the current mining changes coupled with half a brain should reduce alot of the ganking but it won’t solve the issue of packing 80% of the highsec dwellers into Caldari space near Jita which is your real fuel to ganking.
Ganking hasn’t been nerfed. Barges have just been buffed. Which they desperately needed.
Now I’m curious. What would you consider a nerf CCP has made against ganking in recent years? And buffing barges that have been horribly designed for years now(since Fozzie ruined them) isn’t a nerf to ganking. A does not equal B.
2010, single pilot in single ship can take out Hulk in any sec space including 1.0
2013ish, barges buffed around time group ganking starts to take over and drastically increase
2016-2021 fleet boosting changes and orca mining drone bonuses to create huge EHP afk mining machine versus paper thin barges/exhumers. Skiff/Procurer can fit really good solo tank drives ganking towards the other barges like retriever/mack
2021 Orca loses mining drone bonuses gains tons of boost capability, barges buffed. Any miner with half a brain who moves away from Caldari space likely to do well.
What has not changed. Whining crybaby miners when it comes to non-consensual pvp in EVE. Before 2013 it was mostly wardeccers, solo gankers/griefers, or your own corpmates before friendly fire protection introduced. Post 2013 its been group gankers mostly. In all cases it is extremely easy to avoid and deal with but less than 2% of miners seem capable to use their meager brains.
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What you said there makes no sense. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favour of those ships getting an ehp buff because it was silly low but not calling it a nerf to ganking is just dumdum.
According to that logic CCP can remove all asteroids, so there is nothing to mine, and it wouldn’t be a nerf to mining because they didn’t nerf the ships themselves.
That’s a dum dum response lol
Removing the main thing that gets mined from the game is a nerf to mining because… well, it’s the main thing that gets mined in the game. Assuming CCP didn’t replace them with a new thing to get mined.
It would not necessarily be a nerf to the covetor, because yes, you’ve changed mining, but you haven’t fundamentally changed the ship in any capacity.
This is not an equivalent to buffing a ship type that gets ganked and saying it’s a nerf to ganking. Ganking can and will still gank all the other ship types it ganks. They’ll still gank freighters. They’ll still gank haulers. They’ll still gank blingy ships floating around in space. They’ll still gank pods hoping for good implants. And ganking can and will still gank barges. But the increased number of catalysts will not be because the catalyst was made weaker, but because the Covetor was actually brought back to something almost resembling where it should have been the entire time.
To put it in simple terms, if you have apples and oranges but you add more apples, or make the apples bigger, that doesn’t change or reduce the orange in anyway. It just makes the apples better than they were.
Now if you want to argue about nerfs to playstyles… well I guess my answer is going to go back to HTFU. So many playstyles have been destroyed by CCP over the years, and this isn’t even destroying the ganking playstyle at all. Talk to the old nomad mercenary groups and how Jump fatigue annihilated their playstyle before griping to me about how you’re gonna have to spend 2 extra 15m cats for a covetor now.
Everything else in your list is WAY outside the scope of recent years, so I’m not gonna waste keyboard clicks on it. Also, your entire answer is based around changes to mining ships. Not a single point do you make having to do with nerfs to ganking ships, CONCORD response, etc. I’m gonna take that as a ‘You have 0 examples of actual nerfs to ganking ships, but only complaints about mining ships.’ But hey, for giggles, let’s address your two somewhat recent points.
First, your 2013 and 2016-2021 answers are incompatible. You say in 2013 barges were buffed so group ganking had to take over… and then say fleet boosting changes created huge EHP AFK mining orcas as opposed to paper thin barges. Pick one. Barges were either so powerful you had to group gank them, or paper thin. Decide.
Next, I see we’re conveniently ignoring how the Covetor had like, 1 mid slot and only 1k shield or something ridiculous for years after Fozzie screwed the barges over, yes? So what if the procurer could fit a good tank. Bring more catalysts if you wanna gank one.
Again, see point above. The procurer having a tank was not a nerf to ganking. The catalyst, thrasher, other ganking boats etc have changed very little in YEARS. Nor has Concord seen any drastic changes in YEARS, though IIRC there was one that changed some of the CONCORD response editing in because I’m old and got sidetracked and forgot what I was saying: to the number of spawns per player and following them around rather than just blobs of CONCORD wherever a criminal showed up. END EDIT. It was marginal at best, and CONCORD is easily gamed these days anyway.
Next, fleet boosts. If anything, wouldn’t boosts being on grid help ganking? You either see a boosting ship, or don’t, and half those boosting ships are worth considering ganking as well? Unsure how bringing fleet boosts being forced on grid, with activation and weapons timers, instead of sitting inside the model of a station able to just down link and dock at any point and affect the entire system is a buff to mining. But hey, I’m old and maybe forget something.
Your in conclusion paragraph there at the end… Okay, sure there are a lot of whiny miners. But you’ve shown yourself to be a whiny ganker who is only capable of complaining about miners to make your case as to why ganking has been nerfed when ganking ships, CONCORD, etc, has changed… like… almost nothing in what? 5, 6 years? A LONG time? So what if it’s gonna take you a couple more catalysts now? Just log in your al… oh wait, you gank on your alpha and can’t log in your alt, can you?
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Would increasing everyone’s EHP by 500% be a nerf to ganking?
Entirely in isolation, with no other changes?
That’s an interesting question I hadn’t considered. In that case… I would probably say there’d be a lot bigger issues with the game then than ganking, but I would probably come down slightly on the side of yes. With some instances where I could argue no, as well.
I’d side slightly more with the yes, because you’ve fundamentally altered everything in the environment, so no matter what you tried to gank, it’d be WAY harder, because you’ve significantly altered every ship in question without balancing damage for it. Some of these ships just don’t need the buff, either, but that’s a different topic. At that point, the entire point of all the old destroyers is to do a lot of damage on a tiny frame, but their perception of a lot of damage would be drastically altered because everything got so massively changed. I think that’s where the bigger argument for yes, it would probably be a nerf would come from, because all the ships were changed, and damage nor concord was balanced to accompany it.
It’d be a very interesting conversation either way.
So increasing EHP to ships that are “natural” ganking targets… is a nerf to ganking. Glad we cleared that up. And again, I fully agree to the EHP change but that doesn’t mean I don’t see it for what it is.
You uhhh… pulled that one out of your ass, didn’t you?
I was quite, quite, QUITE clear that it’d be a nerf(in that example) because EVERY ship had it’s EHP drastically increased, and damage and concord were not balanced to compensate.
Thanks for the strawman. I’m done talking with you.
No you just used a lot of words, to hide agreeing to the basic logic, to try and avoid having to actually answer.
I am a miner and mission runner. CCP has ruined virtually all playstyles in the past decade but there is only one constant. Most miners whine, ■■■■■, complain, and stamp their feet no matter what occurs.
I guess it is too bad they were not around when Halada’s mining guide was king, 0% waste to refine, and the majority of players did not bother with miners. They just whined about can flippers then. Replace can flippers with gankers today and you get the same thing. “I did not sign up for non consensual PVP and I am going to stamp my feet about it and cry.”
No other player cries and moans like a miner year in and year out.
Eh, the nano guys and gankers definitely are probably louder than the miners. The miners are just more consistent, but god forbid CCP ever nerf nano in any capacity. Hell hath no fury like a cynabal pilot scorned.
But you’re not gonna convince me you’re just some poor helpless miner and mission runner with a zkill like that. You have to be doing something to get killed that many times in a basic rookie ship in Amarr and Jita over and over again while being in FNA… a corp that IIRC can’t be war decced, just like all the other NPC corps.
I bet you’re that cynabal pilot, aren’t you?
A zkill like what? They kill me I have not killed anyone. These dang gankers!
Nearly all corps cant be wardecced nowdays anyhow. Another fine change from CCP…
A peaceful industrialist miner with a -7.13. Now I’ve lived to see everything.
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CCP doesn’t use the same logic.
EHP buff to wrecks for example was identified by CCP as a buff to ganking.
Damage Control rebalance that applied also to Freighters was identified by CCP as a nerf to ganking.
Removal of the ability of criminals to board ships in space was identified by CCP as a nerf to ganking (specificaly hyperdunking, which they also declared as an exploit before the mechanics change).
Ganking is a playstyle, not any single ship or only one way of doing something. Anything that adjusts the balance around that playstyle, including both the predators and the prey, either buffs if or nerfs it and a buff to mining ship EHP adjusts the balance, causing a nerf to ganking (and a totally fine one).
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That’s where you’re making a mistake, hinging your statement on a buff to mining ships is a nerf to ganking. This is, very simply, not true. Ganking wasn’t changed in any capacity. Every aspect of ganking has remained completely unchanged. Catalyst DPS wasn’t nerfed. CONCORD wasn’t made more aggressive. High sec wasn’t changed to safety yellow for everyone. Ganking is unchanged. Mining ships are just a bit stronger. Freighters are the same as they were. Haulers are the same as they were. Afk’ing mission battleships are the same as well, as are pods, blueprint basket herons, and so forth.
This is why Aisha’s strawman is a strawman, because their proposition was to change every ship, and then compare it to changing one or two ship classes, and making summary judgment based on that false equivalence. These two do not equal each other, and I will not simply decide, ‘Oh it’s okay because CCP says so’ when we’re all well versed in just what conclusions CCP’s logic is capable of coming to.
CCP can use whatever logic they want. But a buff to one or two ship classes is not inherently a nerf to another playstyle, especially when the entirety of the rest of that playstyle remains completely unchanged, and the change does not prevent you from pursuing that playstyle. Nor does it really all that drastically alter anything about the balance in the playstyle in question. Again, see Jump Fatigue if you want to see what a real nerf to playstyles looks like, whether you agree or not with those changes so many years later. Fatigue destroyed playstyles and SEVERELY altered others.
If you’d like to put forward changes that were made to ships commonly used for ganking, concord, high sec mechanics, and so forth, that made ganking weaker, more difficult, or so forth - as a result of changes to those ships or their related mechanics - we can discuss. But if you’re going to try and make me jump through the false premise that making a vargur better makes a golem worse, I’m going to laugh and discard your comments. Making a vargur better does nothing to a golem. Some people may just choose to use it now more because it’s more competitive. It may change the relationship between them, but it does not nerf the golem. Same principle here.