To quote CCP:
As I wrote, CCP don’t have the same view you do; and while you are certainly able to push a particular view that a buff the prey isn’t a nerf to ganking, that isn’t a view many will agree with.
No, ganking isn’t unchanged (and that is perfectly fine in this change).
It’s kinda weird how some people equate the few dozen miners/carebears whining on the forums at any given time, and/or the 50-60 on reddit etc… with “most miners” or “98% of miners”.
You folks know there’s literally thousands of miners right? Who mine pretty much all day every day and avoid gankers and just deal with CCP’s ups and downs because they’re doing their thing and just don’t care about the forum-drama types?
And that’s fine. But I’m not gonna bend basic facts to fit CCP and miner or gankers narratives. CCP has has had MANY hilariously bad takes and ‘logics’ over the years. More than enough for anyone with any reason to not just quote them at their word.
Ganking was not changed at all.
You can say players are going to take actions based on these that will treat it the same as a direct nerf/buff.
You can even say that players will perceive it as so and so.
All perfectly true and reasonable. You can ‘win’ something and still take actions/feel like you lost.
But ganking has not been changed in any capacity. It is completely unchanged. The only change was an adjacent ship class was made a little stronger(not even all of them were, some were weakened).
But, I’ll give you a chance to prove me wrong by telling me how ganking was changed: without saying mining ships, mining barges, certain targets, some other means of saying mining ships.
And to be clear, I am not taking ‘miners side.’ But I’m also not entertaining the idea that this is a nerf to ganking because god forbid some ships that were massively vulnerable were actually brought back to something resembling balance. That is not a nerf.
That’s where you are wrong. Increased EHP requires more damage to be dealt in the given time before CONCORD arrives.
More damage requires more DPS either by increasing DPS for the same number of ships (eg. T2 fit instead of T1 for some or all), or more ships.
That is a change to the requirements on the predator side of ganking, hence a nerf to the playstyle (and a perfectly fine one).
It is great that the EHP buff occurred, but it is a mistake to ignore the impact.
As above. The capacity has been changed in terms of the DPS to be delivered.
Why not? That is an idiotic restriction to apply arbitrarily. It was mining vessels that were rebalanced, so of course they are relevant to the aspect of ganking that has been changed.
So you just said ‘mining ships were made actually somewhat balanced again so ganking got nerfed.’ After I said okay, tell me how ganking got changed without saying ‘but mining ships.’
Not one line of code was changed to alter ganking. DPS wasn’t lowered, concord wasn’t changed, high sec wasn’t altered. You have nothing but ‘it’ll cost more catalysts to shoot this class of ships now so therefore it’s a nerf.’ Nevermind none of the other huge array of ships ganking shoots at haven’t been changed at all.
It’s also not arbitrary. It’s to stop the idiotic ‘But you changed something else and it tangentially affected me and I don’t like it so therefore you nerfed my playstyle’ responses. It’s idiotic to just trololol along and say ‘Ope, this ship got changed a bit, so this entire playstyle over here has now been nerfed.’ It’s also idiotic to not be able to separate out cause, effect, and actuality.
The actuality is ganking was not changed AT ALL. Point to the line of code that changed DPS, concord, high sec, anything about the mechanics of ganking were changed. There isn’t one, don’t waste your time.
But because 2 mining barges were brought back into something resembling balance in terms of survivability(1 was nerfed and IIRC 2 of the exhumers got slight HP buffs), people are going to act like it’s this big nerf to ganking, when the reality is nothing about ganking was changed. Not one value about anything to do with ganking was changed. The values for a couple type of their targets was changed, and ones that desperately needed it.
It’s like trying to talk with someone about why you should vote for one political party and all they can do is keep saying ‘because that party is bad.’ Okay, my child, now tell me why I should without just telling me because the other one is bad.
It’d be the same if faxes were massively buffed. That’s not a nerf to dreads. Nothing about dreads was changed. But the end result would be like a nerf to dreads, even though it is not. It’s a massive overbuff to faxes. People will act like it’s a nerf to dreads. People will feel like it is. But it’s not. It’s a gross overbuff for faxes.
So, tell me how ganking was nerfed without saying ‘because mining ships…’
But you can’t and won’t because the only thing you have is ‘But, but, but mining ships…’
Le sigh… I guess it’s what plants crave. We’re done.
You are raging against your own imagination.
No one is giving those responses. It’s just a discussion around a playstyle and a specific aspect of that playstyle.
It’s not difficult to step back and see how the games nerfs and buffs have changed aspects of gameplay while outright killing playstyles.
Ganking is one of those activities that has been wildly impacted throughout the years. Luckily it’s a problem CCP has let us solve by multiboxing more gankers.
Consider it this way: As CCP makes changes, metas change. What used to be effective or “the way” to do something is now different. When CCP buffs mining ships it directly impacts ganking as it indirectly impacts other aspects of the game.
A good example of this was the flood of Orcas mining. These locust-like fleets of AFK mining Orcas were out of reach for most gankers barring those few individuals in a few groups. The impact that the Orca had was that it was very much ungankable by the average player or group. So you saw bumping used more to interact with them.
Every change CCP makes has unforeseen and unknown implications on the game and it’s meta. That’s not really their fault since players generally have a deeper understanding of the game and it’s mechanics than CCP.
Your argument is flawed and I’m going to prove you wrong right here. Ready?
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Not that many people were multi-boxing gankers when one tornado could gank a couple barges, then warp to another belt and get another couple barges.
The harder ganking is, the more it’s multi-boxed. The safer/easier mining is, the more it’s multi-boxed.
If multi-boxing is truly undesirable, the path is clear.
This is actually in relation to the decision to buff the EHP of wrecks, CCP realised that they had been done by the CEO of the lead Goon ganker corp who had taken over the issue of EHP for wrecks that someone else had been looking after and given up on. This came to a head when AG at long last developed a group of players willing and able to gank the wrecks in a simple thrasher.
The gankers finding themselves in the same boat as their prey in having to deal with fast moving cheap ships got this changed so that to gank a freighter to prevent them scooping it requires two Tornado’s. So CCP Fozzie did the DCU change to placate people like me who were very upset at this change which destroyed the only real effective tactic against ganking, even though we recognised it was more than just for ganking.
It may be that Scipio posted that to bait me into this thread. I will make this point and leave it at that. It was at this point I realised that AG could never be anything more than a resistance effort against the gankers and CCP themselves.
I know one, Wurm Online.
I don’t know how prevalent it is but I know it’s true. Good thing is, noobs don’t need vets to make the game enjoyable.
Help what? The game? I don’t care if vets drive away new players, it’s not my game 
It’s mostly roleplay anyways, I don’t pay much attention to it, and if it’s not roleplay then I’d hate to see what their social life looks like
That’s what I said (and it also says it right there in Fozzie’s quote).
You are often wrong in what you post, so there is little value baiting you into anything.
I was actually backing you up there. But made sure it was understood what had actually gone on, you gave too little detail.
Tell me again about being impossible to find people 3 BM’s in based on uncloaking them by being in the same spot, misunderstanding place etc.? You got that totally wrong mate.
I hope you don’t mind me asking but what happened to End of Life, have almost all of them stopped playing? I just noticed that the Astrahus in Stacmon got wasted by Stargate NONNI which kills undefended structures.
In terms of the thread, I believe that excessive multi-boxing is an issue for this game. Excessive would be more than five at least in my opinion. I think that there are things that require three accounts and operating with a solo account makes you too vulnerable. Though more PvP would occur if people were not able to scout themselves.
I have to agree. I’ve never understood why people need to have several accounts and multiple characters running at the same time. I have trouble managing just one character at a time.
I have an alpha account for times when I’ve been unable to justify paying for a subscription due to RL expenses. But alpha or omega, I only play one character at a time. If somebody has the reflexes and mental dexterity to play many characters at once, more power to them, I guess. Whatever.
But it’s entirely how the myths of Eve get built up. Repeat a lie often enough and people come to believe it. A lot of such myths exist more because of psychology, and the predator feeling the need to denigrate the prey to ‘justify’ their position, than because of any actual facts.
Lol…if you want to see locusts, try being in a region when Aiko and her followers are passing through. A ganker fleet is the very epitome of locusts.
And miners choose to be the helpless wheat 
Thankee for agreeing.
I’ve played EVE off and on since 2011 and multi-boxing is a natural progression to playing the game. I don’t mine anymore, but did before the ICE nerf and at one time had 11 toons doing it. It was fun having my own fleet. I see nothing wrong with it, since you can play this game anyway you want. It’s your time and money.
Who are you competing with anyway? There are so many ways to play this game, it’s all about you and your experience. I’ve played in all security spaces and enjoy HS the most due to low stress and better control of my play time.
For now, I’ve settled on no more than 3 PVE combat toons and clear any HS level 4 mission in under 5 minutes (Love the Paladin BTW). That’s fun for me, so it’s worth paying 3 subs. I don’t buy plex, I just buy the Omega specials when they come up to where I get some free stuff along with it. I don’t spend money on beer, so I spend a $50 RL a month or so playing a game I enjoy with three random toons that I may sell and start over at some point.
But, I also have self-diagnosed myself with Attention Deficit Disorder and need the click stimulus to find inner joy.
This game is basically a complex version of Solitaire with space ships.
Peace
That would be true if Eve was solely PvE…but ‘your experience’ pretty soon becomes someone else’s experience for anything else. That is why ’ you can play Eve however you like ’ simply isn’t true.
well you are part of the problem then.
Regardless considering a median of at least 6 accounts per player how many real players are we really. lol
PVP (combat/market) is a variable within the larger game mechanic. Each player has to determine if they want to climb that hill or not.
