Multiple Accounts the good and bad for eve

(Sepheir Sepheron) #104

What Roan said. Alts are like expensive name change service. Do whatever you want to whoever then reroll and escape all reputation. Including bot.

(Sitting Bull Lakota) #105

Let’s explore the problems with using multiple accounts simultaneously:

  1. They allow you to do things that otherwise require group play. The interactions and relationships alts replace are a real cost to both the player using the alt and the player(s) who would have been involved in that content.
  2. The number of people using alts is high enough that a substantial amount of player-to-player interaction is morphed into a bastardized solo play which extends Problem One’s effects to all current and potential players. This massively decreases activity and enthusiasm for the game.
  3. Alts are so common that new and old single-account players wonder if they’re not competitive. This further drives down activity and enthusiasm for the game.

This is an mmorpg. When we use alts, we are bypassing the mmo to get the rpg. The problem is that the rpg is only compelling because of its mmo component.
We’re placing the cart before the horse, and it has to have an economic effect. EvE’s revenue is the fair market value of all of the benefit derived from use of the game. The benefits alts provide must be less than the benefits alts replace which implies that the game’s revenue must be higher without alts than with them.

Alts are not good. Alts are not necessary. Alts are a hidden expense against the game’s revenue and reduce every player’s enjoyment of the game by lesser or greater extent.
Extend the alpha login restriction to all accounts.

(Rivr Luzade) #106

For you. For me, my alts allow me to have a great deal more fun and enjoyment than without them.
No relying on annoying and useless other users when you don’t have to.
No waiting for other users and considering their feelings and indispositions and unreliability when you least need it.
No unnecessary worrying about whether that or this person has flipped just because of a bad day and will ruin your day just because they feel like it.

You can do things with your alts when you want it and how you want it. And you can still cooperate with other users if you feel like it or if it is necessary because you can’t user your alts. Alts do not reduce enjoyment for yourself whatsoever. Only you yourself reduce your enjoyment by your decisions on how to use EVE.

(Daichi Yamato) #107

I disagree.

Alts aren’t just used for doing group content, or more content or avoiding retaliation. They can be tasked to do activities that a real person would not want to dedicate their entire eve life to.

Hauling on an alt whilst you do something more interesting. Sitting on a locator agent. Sitting at a trade hub. Holding a corp. Cyno’s. Escort. Afk cloaking. Ganking.

These uses do not replace actual players because no self respecting player would be at another’s disposal to perform these tasks. But they still increase eve’s revenue.

(Sienna Khalifa) #108

multiboxers are a nuissance in any online game. mmorpgs are intended to group people not be the playground of a single guy with his 10 characters that only require 1 button to farm everything.

but yeah EVE culture has developed a need for having alts on everything because of the utility they provide like scouting, cynoing, spionage and ■■■■ like that.

i used to have 3 alts back when i could afford Omega (and was limited to 2 months of play only, no alpha clones). most of the time it was my mining main sit on a barge then one day or two would take out the other in a noctis to salvage when running L4s. cant remember what did the other character do, it has been like 7 years or so.

i just grew tired of all that micromanagement, now i run a single fresh account with a single character and havent found any issues making money for myself. its not even maximum efficiency is just plain knowledge of what i do and where i can turn that into a profit. people doesnt get that and think that profits are only obtained in this game by running 3 mining/ratting characters or ■■■■ like that. of course it pays if you live in null with the intel and company to do something in case you get spotted but i wouldnt really bother multiboxing in high sec, heck i wouldnt bother multiboxing in any other place that’s working not playing.

if i were to need an alt it would be because i have been able to afford Omega again and want to fly a Black Ops because sadly CCP has made jumpdrives to depend on a ■■■■■■■ alt to make them work or otherwise you’re obligued to do gating.

(Sitting Bull Lakota) #109

Players, I have a moment to expand on my premise before my plane departs.

When I say that everyone’s enjoyment is lessened to some extent by the use of alts, what I mean is that the game has been formed around the use of alts.
You cite locator agents, cynos, cloaked eyes, neutral scouts, using capitals, freighters, etc. as things that it is unreasonable to expect another player to assist with regularly.
I completely agree.
It is completely unreasonable to expect another player to do any of those things. They are not engaging gameplays. Why are they necessary? Because alts are so ubiquitous that any meta that does not rely on them to accomplish these tasks is willfully and woefully inefficient.

If alts are removed, those metas become impossible immediately and will have to be replaced. When that happens, the capital meta for instance, will be unrecognizable and, I assert, much improved. Removing alts will be the best thing that ever happened to any meta.

Want to gank? Bring friends.
Want to camp? Bring friends.
Want to drop caps? Bring friends.
Want to haul? Either accept the long align times or get a friend to scout and web for you while the two of you split the collateral/reward.
That makes the game much more dynamic.

When we consider the revenues, what I mean is that the value of EvE comes from the content generated by player directed activity and interactions. Alts necessitate that some amount of player-to-player activity and interaction is replaced. My argument is that this undermines EvE’s primary value providing mechanism.

The game without alts must be more fun/engaging/dynamic/populous/etc. without alts than it is with them, because it aligns more closely to EvE’s mmorpg premise. This means that whatever value you might think you enjoy from using the alts in the current meta must be lesser than the value you would enjoy playing in an alt-free environment.

(Daichi Yamato) #110

I appreciate what you’re trying to say i do.

But ganking isn’t in the state it is because of alts. Alts for ganking was the product of the new killrights system because a character becomes pretty much unusable in hi-sec for a month after performing one gank. Before the new killrights system using alts for ganking was much less necessary.

Similar story with escorts. It’s widely understood that escorting a hauler is both tedius and not worth a players time. And it was like that in null, not just webbing alts for a freighter. This is precisely why ccp will not nerf jump freighters and cyno alts are what keep jump freighters going. As ‘cool’ as escorting and attacking convoys sounds, it is just piss poor gameplay.

Even if the new nav structures could replace cyno’s, it’s still not gonna happen. Small alliances will never maintain a jump network under the threat of bigger groups.

You’re hinting at a ground up overhaul of intersystem travel. No scouts, no cyno’s. And what does that look like? Without an idea of how that would work, alts must be a good thing because they enable content in hard to reach places (as well as enable content that is heavily punishable).

(Dracvlad) #111

I used a single account from 2009 to 2011, after that I got a second account, simply put having a scout that jumps into the system ahead of your more important asset makes it very worthwhile. The issue is that the real casual hisec players often have only one account and that makes them easy ganks…

I will not play Eve unless I have two accounts, which is kind of the reason why I am currently de-subbed, felt a bit bad in terms of my other half for continuing to sub two accounts after I brought Odyssey with all of its bells and whistles and a nice gamer curved monitor so decided to de-sub for a period of time, then got her to splash out on some really nice boots and stuff, but still two accounts or not at all…

(Sepheir Sepheron) #112

Alts are what let power blocs force multiply so quicky. You think if every Rorqual and VNI you saw was a unique player there would be such a disparity of wealth? No. You think they would be able to fund skill injecting new bots when one is banned if they could only have one at a time? No.

Rorqs alone pretty much make blitz burner isk/h with less keystrokes. It’s not very impressive if it’s just one, it’s just lazy. If no alts suddenly mining ops require more than one person with 10 rorqs and a super sitter. Alts are bad. If you think they aren’t then you’re bad.

They ruin everything in every game. They ruin the personal part they ruin the sense of accomplishment for everyone who isn’t using them and they make games completely in favor of those who can afford multiple displays and monthly payments.

I never thought buying isk made eve pay to win. Isk gets blown up. Alts don’t and currently they can be bought. By definition eve is currently pay to win as if someone really wanted to they could actually fleet themselves n+1 ships if they had the cash to do so.

(Shallanna Yassavi) #113

Alts let you skip player interaction for extra money, which implies that people with alts consider other players to be so bad that they’re willing to spend more money on the game so they don’t have to interact with (or at least depend on) them for stuff.

As for pay-to-win… all multiplayer games with persistent stats are. If there’s a number you want increased, you can pay someone to do it. If you don’t want to deal with that, your only realistic option is to literally stop playing multiplayer games with persistent stats. For less nuclear options, you have… oh. The “carebear plague” where people don’t want to interact.

(Vulvona Ride-in) #114

paying 6 accounts here because the game is empty, mainly boring and i m not logging in on a regular basis… BUT i like managing skill queue!

TIDI disgusted me sooooo much that i went back to HS where im injecting brain goo mainly few time a year.

(Rexxar Santaro) #115


(safira jomita) #116

Also not worth to the hauler to pay, unless a very valuable cargo, as industry cost and market prices are very close. At least in tier 1

(ExcalibursTemplar) #117

It’s ok up to a point IMO.

When there’s an arsehole multiboxing and input broadcasting (which is banned) 30+ rattlesnakes + golems in HQ NRF incursions sites, in highsec, it’s gone way way to far. Which is actually going on atm as one guy that no one can compete with is ■■■■■■■ over thousands of incursion runners in highsec atm. He’s making 1.6 billion per site and is running them in around 12 minutes all day long.

(Gadget Helmsdottir) #118

Your own extra account or a mate’s, but it does require a second account.

–Gadget scouts this thread

(Gadget Helmsdottir) #119

–Gadget waits patiently for Beta 2.

(Lena Crews) #120

I personally wouldn’t be all that broken up about having to go to one account.

But I’d strip the stuff off of my 3 other accounts and de-sub them immediately. I can’t imagine how all the people with alt accounts desubbing all but one account would help CCP at all.

(Delix Ulratha) #121

Multiple accounts are the heroin of Eve. We’ve had our taste, we now need them to “survive,” and all the while we know that they’re slowly killing the game. In my opinion, everyone should be locked to 1 account. I don’t have a problem with alts in general, just being able to log them simultaneously. If I need more “instances” of me in game in order to successfully compete in it, there’s something fundamentally wrong.

“I can’t fly my cap without my 2 fax alts, my cyno alt, and my scout alt, so don’t take away my accounts.” A typical response, although very untrue. You don’t need these things, you want them. Also, talk about being a carebear… I thought this was a game of risk? Maybe if you didn’t have all these alts, you wouldn’t fly your caps so much, or corps couldn’t drop them on anything that moves. Maybe it would reduce cap proliferation if you were actually afraid to undock that dread. Maybe that titan would cost more, and take more time to build if mats costed more or took more time to acquire without the hordes of 1 man fleets that are 10 rorqs strong mining 20 hours a day. Maybe isk wouldn’t have such a deflated value if the multitudes of VNIs weren’t able to do what they’re doing. Maybe people would fly subcaps again cause they couldn’t single-handedly field all the logi they need for a cap. Maybe the number of bots would be drastically reduced.

Yes the markets would be crazy for a while, but they’ll recover. Yes people would field less caps, but that’s good. I can’t think of a single reason why someone needs another logged alt. They all just boil down to either risk mitigation or income generation, and neither of these outweigh the negative effects of allowing it in the first place. Just my two cents.

(Delix Ulratha) #122

I can understand your reasoning, but my question is why is it you need to access these things simultaneously? If you want a hauler alt, that’s cool. If you want a bounty hunter alt, also cool. If you want a trade alt, again cool. But why do you need all three logged at the same time? I’m not attacking you or anything. It just seems to me that some people want all things at all times, instantaneously. Why should you be entitled to a cyno alt when flying with a cap? Just trying to get more insight into this logic. Thanks.

(Mika Akido) #123

SI’m a gamer from decades back so most of my game time has always been solo. While eve is a very social game there are many times when it is necessary to go it alone. That was the reason I started my second account because I was frustrated in that there were so many that things I couldn’t do solo and having another set of hands helped my gameplay enjoyment.

So for me, I think multiple accounts are good. However, I do think there should be some kind of a limit if that were possible. I k ow people that have half a dozen accounts and they pay for few of them due to Isk making opportunities on null sec. This does seem to make it more difficult for others, in my opinion. And that’s all it is, my opinion.