This.
Feedbacks seem useless anyway, customers have stronger tool, you can make a comment when you cancel your subscription renewal…
Rise mentioned in an interview that EVE is already full of RNG and that’s true, but this is a different kind of RNG. I put something on the table (in this case the plasmid and the module, both of which I can buy on the market with real money) which has a certain value, I roll the dice, and I get something back that’s either more or less valuable. We call that gambling.
Loot drops, for example, aren’t gambling because I never stand to lose anything. I also can’t buy more chances at loot by splashing some cash. The closest we’ve got is T2 invention and that’s not exactly everyone’s favorite feature. Nevertheless, the chances of a successful invention are pretty good and the loss on a failed one is minimal, with BPCs essentially being free and endless.
The concern with this isn’t just the mutaplasmid feature, it’s the introduction of these kind of gambling mechanics to the game. It normalizes it, and because there are always a few whales who get addicted it’s very tempting to add to it later. Given the power of these modules it’s not something anyone can ignore, you’re pushed toward gambling or at least providing a healthy demand for other people to gamble so that you can buy mods from them. This is a bad road for any game to go down. For the players at least, for the company it’s a fantastic source of income until people get fed up with it and leave.
Whether it was intended or not this feature is coming across like yet another way to wring money out of players, and it’s a particularly nasty one. And again, once this bit of gambling is normalized it gets easy to justify more. See how I felt compelled to justify T2 invention up there so it isn’t used as an excuse to push the boundary just a bit further still? That’s how it happens.
edit: Here’s a fun experiment for anyone at CCP: go to whoever is pushing this feature and ask them if they’d still want it if mutaplasmids were bind-on-pickup, with no other way to buy or trade them. If the answer’s no you can guess what the real motivation behind it is. If the answer’s yes then you can surely find a way to address the gambling concerns before launch.
3 Likes
… and the feature will be a stunning “success” and clearly justify more of the same, but not because people like it, but because they must participate in order to stay in game.
If it would be a niche thing with clear drawbacks and restriction on supply, the Abyssal mods would eventually find their healthy place in the meta. But how it looks like now, they will replace everything else but the cheapest mods.
3 Likes
I am usually a fan of you guys in CCP. You constantly innovate, just take the last couple of years with citadels, skill injectors and alpha clones.
These changes, albeit not to everyones liking, have improved the game and made it more accessible for the masses.
In my opinion you have made the same with abyssal deadspace. Its a great form of creating content without actually creating content, much like the affixes in Diablo 3. It adds replayability which is much needed in PVE. But the plasmids are going too far. RNG aspects should be carefully implemented as they are 1) Tacky and 2) Very situational.
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Alot of people love EVE for its serious approach to things. That you are the master of your fate, i.e., its a grownup game. Introducing aspects that you can find in lesser MMOs diminishes this feeling alot. Simply put, you are lowering the standard.
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EVE is a massively complex game. You dont add RNG on this scale in such a game, its just madness (no offense). This works in Diablo 3 for instance, but last I played it the PVP aspects were still not implemented (after close to a decade simply because they couldnt balance it) and the game being far simpler. In such a case RNG like this adds something.
But in EVE you are simply breaking the controlled environment, a control aspect that takes people years to learn. Now imagine explaining to a new player how the modules work. And after teaching them all about meta-levels and everything else surrounding it, having to tell them that none of that is actually 100% since we have another aspect that is random which can totally skewer the picture.
Imo, this will hurt you more than you will gain by it. A lot of people are disliking this already and long term I find it hard for you guys to actually be able to balance this. It will take you years to manage this new system and thats alot to ask for from your playerbase. During this time you wont be able to actually deal with alot of the old broken things in the game which imo are in greater need of changes than this.
So my suggestion is the following, keep the abyssal deadspace. Its great and will be much fun. But instead of adding plasmids and having that RNG aspect, please reconsider making the drops into new faction modules. Let the trig faction drops be better than the pirate/deadspace ones thereby giving incentive to players to run them (make the best tier something between current faction/deadspace levels and officer level ones) and instead continue with the tiericide project to alleviate some of the currently existing complexity.
TL:DR This game needs to become less complex, not more. Plasmids will forever break the hope of simplifying the game. Please do not go this route.
7 Likes
Agreed with respect to window logic at the very least, like comparisons, fittings, different hangers, contract/trade windows, etc.
Please let’s just not do this. Introduce a max(meta)+1 level and make it deterministic.
Dear CCP,
Can we plase not have 80KM points on Mordu ships, 35+KM neuts on Bhaalgorns, and 500mn MWD machs that go faster than frigates?
P.S. who the hell thought that copying every other MMO is a good thing?
best regards,
Heff.
3 Likes
Was my first today in SiSi with a large shield ext II, what I got with first roll was god mode, 50% more HP, less sig (24 -17), less CPU, slightly more PG. Mutator dropped from a lvl1 site.
I’m worried how this will be balanced. So far it looks to me that this will be huge ISK and real currency sink and that it could really screw up balance and complexity of the game. Abysal space is cool though.
CCP, is there any well thought plan, or a logframe, what these mutaplasmids should achieve? Could you present it to the community?
Cheers,
1 Like
Two things
- Why is there no isk sink to using them? You have the perfect opportunity to add an isk sink here.
- Why aren’t they Incorporated into the the fairly new Industry menu? I get we need new UI for them but this could be incorporated into the Industry menu. And personally I don’t like the new pop up mutaplasmid menu especially when existing solutions are there.
No ■■■■. Every loot drop is RNG/“gambling”. T2 invention RNG/“gambling”. Even combat is RNG.
Too late. Combat, loot drops, T2 invention all RNG.
You mean like T2 invention right? After all that improves a T1 module and works off of a RNG process too.
RNG is already in the game. It is ubiquitous in fact. Every loot table relies on an RNG. Getting an escalation, RNG.
Interesting. Yes, so the cost of Meta 17 item would be very high. After all, if it takes say 5 of them to get 1 of those mutated meta 17 items your meta 17 costs for producing that 1 enhanced module will 5x the cost of a meta 17 module. Then there is the cost of obtaining all the other inputs as well. So at a minimum an enhanced meta 17 module = 5x the meta 17 module.
You mean like datacores? I pile up datacores in a way that you can never ever effect via PvP. Others pile them up too.
With Mutaplasmids you’ll at least have to grind. I accumulate datacores when I’m sleeping, working, driving to work, walking the dog…in short I accumulate datacores when I play the game (and not grinding for datacores, but by grinding for other stuff or PvPing) and when I’m not playing the game.
Dude…really? Do you understand how much of the game works? Your hit chance is RNG. Your damage is RNG. The loot that drops, RNG. T2 invention RNG. Where you drop out of warp RNG. If your beef is simply RNG, then wrong game and can I have your stuff?
I put datacores and an T1 BPC into an invention slot, roll the dice, I either get back something of more or less value.
I either get back a T2 BPC and a T1 BPC with 1 less run or I get back just a T1 BPC with 1 less run.
Too late, already in game.
You lose your time. Time is your most precious resource. When you run out of bread or milk it is an inconvenience. When you run out of time you are dead…literally.
I’ll skip the rest of your post as your premise is critically flawed.
Seriously guys, try to understand how the RNG works currently in the game.
2 Likes
Whisky Tango Foxtrot…why are mutaplasmids not on the market? Why do I have to farm this ■■■■? I was going to log in and do as may mutations as possible and put the results into an google docs file so that people could get an idea of how these new products could impact the market but you haven’t actually seeded these items.
I get that you want to see how people farm mutaplismids, but mutaplasmids will have an effect well beyond just the farming market. Are you guys being deliberately obtuse by not simply seeding these items so somebody like me can use the on 100 or even more items to give you an idea of how they’ll effect the market and the game?
Really…are you guys just this dumb?
Apparently the answer is: YESSII
not sure if you guys are even watching this thread considering how bad it’s gotten but if you are can you add a trash button to the result screen so you can just trash them right away if they are crap?
2 Likes
Im willing to buy mutaplasmids, i can offer Storyline, Faction, Deadspace, Officer Modules & Injectors.
In game character: Falla Kylani, leave a message 
I think creating a PVP free environment is bad for eve - the only safe place should inside a high-sec NPC station.
If 2 or more players activate the same type of filament within a set time there should be a chance they enter the same space.
Can we get heavy warp scram / disruptor and maybe smartbomb mutaplasmids aswell?
That could easily be abused to fly those sites with multiple ships, while being balanced for a single one. That’s the whole reason why only one can enter, or else everyone would just bring three logistics with them and have no problem whatsoever
In my humble opinion this game is too much balanced and because of thar became boring and too much predictable. Mutaplasmid and mutated equipmet will shake up the game and make it much more interesting. All this whining about uncertain future just show that few players which have high skills and imba ships are affraid that no longer will be top cats in low sec…
Changes are good for future development and I support CCP on that. 
2 Likes
I do not want to see this system in game. Simply put it’s a time and effort sink into something that will greatly stratify the 'have’s with the 'have-not’s, and is not a little like gambling - with no player input influencing a particular outcome.
This honestly feels like a half-hearted attempt to imitate similar systems from other games (Warframe’s equally controversial ‘Riven’ mods), or an otherwise thinly-veiled way to dump time, effort and in-game resources into something unnecessary and easily lost.
In a worst case scenario, with enough availability, people will be churning through these Mutaplasmids - funding their slot-machine-esque gambling with ISK, or, at worst PLEX for ISK.
I’d personally rather not see the longest running Sci-Fi MMO run itself into the ground because it wants to suddenly be a casino.