I think we should start a Multi-Plasmyd Anonymous group in EVE and ask for donations from the large corporations. They can send in their addicts, we receive their ISK, and we tell them to only gamble on NPC rats in high sec so they can gamble as much as they want.
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Seriously, its everyones own decision for now. CCP couldn’t care less.
Since it’s not illegal gambling, they should not care. It was a fun trollpost from OP though!
How many doses of Mutaplasmids are you consuming per day now?
How much wealth have you already sunk into this addiction?
Arent you worried the Australian internet-police will find and arrest you for illegal gambling?
I think these threads you keep making are a call for help…
Disclaimer : https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/gambling-addiction/
Now, let’s bet 1 bil on would these gambling posts go on over 500 posts or not?
If you feel betting on this, please seek help. You will have a chance to win a multiplasmid of your choice! Get help NOW!
Calm down Salvos or I will start thinking you are addicted to something yourself.
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Please don’t.
But do post more, so I can gratify the replying urge in me.
Just this. But with Salvos posts.
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It’s true that by playing the game we agree to the ToS/EULA. In addition to that, CCP, in my experience, handles their player relations with great care and most players, including myself, feel loyal towards the makers of this game. This largely good and mostly healthy relationship is worth more than any legal stuff.
Basically, we can trust in CCP continuing to provide us access to the game unless we gravely undermine the rules of the game.
Now, that being said, I think PLEX is a double-edged sword, at least in an European understanding of law. As long as CCP is as cool as they are, this won’t become a practical problem. If they weren’t and this would ever be tested, I think the main issue with PLEX would be that due to the well-established (and partly advertised) way to turn real money into in-game money, and thus real money into in-game items, the question of ownership gets far more complicated. As soon as there is an established way to buy in game items, there is the danger for some judge to simply disagree with the ToS/EULA and that’s it.
For instance, the people who argue in this thread that you can’t buy in-game money with real money, because it is not “direct” would be laughed at by courts in my country. With this argument every drug dealer would walk free, every slightly advanced scam-scheme would be legal. The question would be: what is the intention of PLEX? They would find that in practise, it is an established way to buy in-game money in 95% of the cases. And that would be enough to clarify the relation.
Europe is very different from the US in that sense. Here, luckily, you can’t sue people or companies for insane amounts of money. If companies break the law, they can get huge fines, but those aren’t going to go into the pockets of whoever started the case. This is good, because it deters people from abusing the legal system for personal profit.
At the same time, contractual freedom is limited in favor of the customer. For instance: if you say you are selling something to someone, but in your ToS you define that they don’t own it after the sale, so you are not actually selling it, a judge in my country could be unhappy about the unclarity of that agreement. It’s not a real sale, okay. But it’s not really a lease either. What is it? And so on.
That means:
… is not true for Europe. Customer rights go far beyond the normal protection by contract law.
For any American customers this won’t apply. They sign something, they waive their rights. Not so in Europe.
The reason this will never be tested, is because CCP is a bunch of good guys who only ban people for heavy breach of conduct, botting, rmt and the likes.
Now with gambling on Mutaplasmids, this could become more complicated even.
Can you please explain this, as EVE Online is really the only game I play.
I assume that is from the US? In Europe it would be the same. And in the case of EVE this would anyway be illegal, because RMT.
Yeah very true and in that sense even tax-paying organized crime is not welcome. Then again, I don’t fully agree with the tax thing. I mean, of course they care, as taxes pay for infrastructure of all kinds. They need to care, I expect them to care about taxes. But they also care about addiction, as it can drive a country into the ground. If they would care more about taxes than about that, they could simply legalize all drugs and make money of it.
Absolutely, the definition is imperfect and in many cases simply not established. I mean, there is little doubt that immaterial goods can hold value, as seen in filesharing cases. Since CCP is not only forbidding but also acting on RMTers, the only value would be the use-value, because you can’t turn your PLEX back into ¥€$. But there are also a bunch of things that exist in the material world and to some people hold value to others they don’t. I think since you can pay with money for in-game items and players buy millions of Dollars worth of PLEX, it could be seen as a niche thing, but nevertheless of value for all parties involved.
The legal question is interesting and I think it really depends how this can be answered, but my general point was more about possible negative impacts on vulnerable players. Or in other words: I have zero interest in someone testing this in any court, but I do think it is important to draw a line somewhere out of CCP’s responsibility toward its players. I’m not claiming that this is an endemic issue and huge drama, but that it might have stepped over a line and I wouldn’t want to see this becoming the new normal in EVE.
But doesn’t this case work differently? With a lootbox you can’t lose value, with Mutaplasmids you can.
Well the game itself is addictive, I blame CCP for making it too good to widthstand the temptation 
Still waiting for your first argument tbh.
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Around 20 before breakfast.
About three fiddy.
Yes.
You think?
Nobody usually discusses that about games that are not. Proof that EVE CAN BE IN FACT ADDICTIVE. At least to those who play it.
But it will not change CCP decision about making it so. Same as I never though about alcohol industry stopping production. I see shelves full of alcoholic drinks in supermarkets here, every day some childrens are walking past them.
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reference : https://www.pcgamesn.com/counter-strike-global-offensive/csgo-lootbox-netherlands
The issue is that you :
- buy a lootbox for RL money
- calculate the risk/reward ratio
- find what will give you the best price to win ratio
- make slight profit from simply buying lootboxes in bulk, opening them then selling them directly to other players for RL money thus profiting and making others hope to ‘win’ RL money so they don’t have to go to work and can just open lootboxes to pay for their house, food, yacht, etc.
None of the above points is playing CS:GO, it’s just “gambling hidden in a CS-GO branded interface” .
No real gamblers will gamble on stings they cannot sell to get their initial investment back. Once people can profit from micro-transactions (although the skin prices aren’t real micro-transactions any more) they will be more inclined to gamble more of their RL money into those and other gambling systems.
edit: An example, I start to play EVE Online, I fit a ship, go to some anomaly and start looting the wrecks. Now although the mechanics might resemble the above, you will not have a real gambling feel to it. You don’t " (A) invest RL money, (B) make a calculated guess and (C) reap the RL rewards" but you do have a good time untill you get wrecked yourself.
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it’s just a way they make money. There is an incentive. People “want” high end modules without any sweat. Why don’t spend RL money on PLEX for that. Whole thing is hardly game-changer as it was described before release. It is monetization everywhere now in this game. Mutating is random, random mean you must spend more to get possible effect.
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You know what? The games magazine sold here was called Gambler. People playing games are gamblers. No distinction between real and not real gamblers. You have been a gambler many times yourself. You have lost some gambles too. Some you have won. The concept of investment can be stretched to many things, like time, perceived profit etc.
Gambler came after gamble, “risk something of value on a game of chance,” from the Middle English gammlen, “play or be merry,”
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Yes, for the ‘gambling addict’ but courts will only care about money. Only if extreme negligence of others is involved time might be considered. We were talking about the “percieved (il)legality of the gambling of multiplasmyds”.
PLEX is akin to a subscription coupon, which incidentally can be traded INSIDE the game however you want to. You cant trade it outside, because that coupon is owned by CCP and does not exist outside of EVE.
I get your arguments, live in EU, have some legal studies under me and follow related developments, and disagree with your assessmement.
EU courts would find that isk is of no more value than funny money from a Monopoly set. And also find that all isk that exists, is owned by CCP.
In any case, this thread is about the legality of Mutaplasmids, as construed as illegal gambling, or problematic to gambling addicts as a mental health issue, as presented/asked by Zluq in OP.
Gamblin is and will be a part of human culture and it will not go away as long as people dont learn how to predict everything. Legal or not, its everyones decision to take part or not.
Even if it is legal, it doesnt mean it cant be damaging.
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Certainly.
Water is not illegal, but drinking too much (or too little) will damage your health.
Its stupid and false, however, to claim that buying Mutaplasmids, or using them on modules, will damage your health. Nor is it illegal to do so, either per CCPs rules or IRL laws.
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Certainly people can make everything deadly. The thing is how much they want it or with what they combine it. If some guy in russia would not play VR after drinking vodka, he would not fall down on a glass table and bleed to death. Its crazy but it happened.
guess normal discusion is not possible
enjoy what ever you want
JuuR
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