There are a lot of really bad corps out there, that do nothing but mine or rat all day, everyday. This does not give a new player a chance to experience all that EvE has to offer and therefore slowly loses interest due to boredom.
Also, new players should NOT be able to create a corp until 3 months old. A lot of new players create a 1 man corp hoping to attract other players. Unfortunately, the players they recruit are new players, so it becomes the blind leading the blind. This is not a recipe for success and player retention in my opinion.
Hi new player here. I can shed some light as to why i’ve left the game 3 times and started again recently.
Started out alpha and realized I can only fly some ships that looked ugly. Saw a cool ship that didn’t look like it was pulled out of 60s d movies or lego pieces randomly put together. Saw the “no alphas allowed” sign. Put skills on que and realize i have to wait a few days to do combat sites, forgot i had the game afterwards
Second time around i found out alphas can fly the cooler ships now. Awesome! But then realize the price tag was a little much. That’s fine! Its an rpg after all! Lets look at some grinding guides. Ah okay, i should do explo as a newb. Proceeds to spend hours watching guides, then more hours watching more guides after getting blown up, then getting blown up again because the guides didn’t say anything about sites that have ‘timers’ in them. All in all, i got burnt because i spent more time traveling than finding and hacking sites.
Third time around i seriously want to get in for real. maybe ill end up subbing. Proceeds to being constantly told that i should do that boring ol explo sites again. Ill do combat this time because i have limited time to spend especially with a 1 year old daughter to take care of. Proceeds to realise that high sec missions needs virgin levels of grinding to be profitable. Okaaay. Nul sec yea? Join a corp? Proceeds to be stuck in interview chat que for two and a half weeks. Alright ill go nulsec solo. Gets blown up before reaching destination, and a second time while trying to rat. I guess my gear is too low level. Again, spent more time travelling than playing.
I have no plans of leaving. I like hard games and trying to learn more. Not making conclusions either. These are just the reasons why i left the first two times. Not playing because of ship design might be a weird reason for you. But a lot people are drawn into space games for their spaceships. Spiky metalcore or lego brick designs doesn’t exactly feel immersive for me. Same reason id rather choose western MMOs over korean nipple-twirling-sexy-fantasy-time MMOs.
Yeah, that’s correct. The fact that New Eden’s society isn’t properly structured is an actual problem. A great step would definitely be if there were actual requirements to making a corporation, compared to how it is now.
But hey, we can’t have that. Too many losers would whine about that.
There is a lot of reasons new players do not stay around, and a lot of reason Veteran players turn to other games. The op brought up some but not all the reasons.
New players leave for,
this is a subscription MMO, the free to play is more a free trial. this is still miss leading, once people figure it out they leave.
it may take years to get the ship they want. they see a carrier and have everyone saying get into X capital, they plan it and see to get into it it without dropping a lot of isk or real life money will take anywhere from one to three years ( have not done the math on a new character but i’m sure it is still a long time)
they just get lost after trying to run the tutorial, then the career agents. - very few starting corps are helpful (shout out to CAS, more should be like them! ) and for new beans the standard is tutorial and career agents. Perhaps putting Career agents into an epic arc (with more explanation on how to get things) might be an idea. Also, the career agents and tutorial should give an actual PVE fitted ship of the type they get (tutoal still has you strapping a shield and armor repper on, instead of handing you something to base a good build off of)
Null Sec is safer than High sec. there is rules in rookie systems (or used to be at least) but after that you have ganking/salvaging/dualing requests as someone leaves stations. Someone tells the new bean that mining in .5 will get you better ore, they go and get shot cause of (code is the go to, but others still do as well) now, depending on what the person does after the kill, the new person may log off and not come back, or if the gank pilot (instead of saying you need a permit) actually talks to the person, get them invested, they actually might stay. (yes code can be a good thing but to many are just easy kill lookers)
everyone wants caps /Faxes. that new bro wants to go join a corp, everyone says 00 is where to go so they go looking, they want the big fights eve is known for. a lot of corps say welcome but here is your training plan for the next x months, and make sure you get an alt for a FAXs. (00 is caps on line, looking into this may help if the guy in the frigate doesn’t feel rushed to get a cap, maybe make it where titans have only one type of moon to get parts for it in each region? super carriers 2, carriers and dreads 3? just an idea)
besides killboards there is no way to see how you are doing compared to others - people want PVP, and the alliance tournaments always brought in more people (I’ve came back a few times cause of the tournament) - face it, we immortal capsulers when be sponsored the factions to prove who is best - a monthly corp based tournament would do wonders for player retention. Not to mention; bring back alliance tournament!
this game is niche, and I love it because of that, so we will never be wow or instant gratification, but no skill should take more than a monthly sub should take. new players do love hearing skill training complete. (i would recommend having something in game when a skill is done what the skill has done, and what new modules they can add if any, it cannot be a pop up do to they might be in space/offline/ not able to look at it, but seeing what the skill does for you would be great.
Leadership - there is a lot of corps out there, but a lot are ran by new people themselves or is just a tax dodge or expect there pilots to do something without leading it. (leading a corp is hard work most are not up for it) but if the corp they get in do not do anything, they are more likely to leave even if there alliance is doing something. (would recommend that CAS module be converted to the other starting corps, to let new people get there feet wet in fleets and fun, perhaps ran by someone at CCP sometime so new players learn who is creating the game, and they they do care about the game)
Leadership is on us the players though. we need to get activity for there to be things to do.
most PVP is based around timers (in null) - goals are good to have, but when you can only attack at this time to do anything, there needs to be options to fight for things around the clock instead of a limited time frame. (things should come out in the defenders time zone, but these also should not be manipulated just so the defender can make sure the other cannot forum up. I preferred the old system of needing around the clock defense, it gave an in game reason to forum an alliance so one corp could pass off duties to the next.
this is just me off the top of my head; probably should have structured is a bit better, but as I’m just waking up well there is that.
Did want to address the triglavians - I do not think it was really meant for new players but for the vets around. I really do not think people leave cause of the half baked ideas CCP comes up with (i would like to see a full idea but that is Vet not newbie I imagine)
20+ jumps the avg roam before finding content is closer to 50 and seeing someone run to their citadel to dock up isn’t counted lol.
You hit the nail on the head, no one likes being shoved into a situation where they cant explore for themselves and are forced into super long training times that don’t benefit them in their early days.
It could also explain why when you solo pvp to a region in a frig/desi/cruiser they undock capitals to fight you, maybe that’s all they can fly lol.
I think the NPE is completely toxic. They should just remove it.
I think that because it is completely different from the game. It is a themepark like storyline with extrinsic motivators (tons of rewards) to do actual stuff. On the other hand the main game has no storyline, is a sandbox and is completely relying on intrinsic motivation.
Game studios have actually studied this. If there never is extrinsic motivators there is no problem. If you introduce them and later take them away people will just stop.
This is why I think the NPE should be removed. Put in a small tutorial without rewards, not even achievements.
Also move the new player systems to NPC nullsec to make the first contact with the game more interesting.
Why does it matter? If it was half of what it is now, someone else will come and claim that it is still too much. There is no “bottom end” to this, no matter what he says.
The fact that the game wouldn’t even exist without the people who were simply playing, while their skills went up, apparently doesn’t even occur to him.
The problem isn’t skilling/waiting time, it’s the people who demand instant gratification.
Or, to sum in up via a practical example:
They’ve removed the “exploration” from “exploration”, because (as they say) it’s a waste of time.
That means it’s not about playing anymore, but about the reward. The drugfix.
The player is being reduced to a jackass hunting the carrot. Literally.
And the players themselves, donkeys they are, don’t ■■■■■■■ get it.
I was trying to walk him to that point…sheesh, thanks for ruining my big reveal…
I half suspect he was being ironic or something as my god, really? Are people really not staying because they can’t have a titian in week one as an Alpha? Complex gaming is doomed…
I agree with most of that until null sec, I would keep the starting systems the same.
But the New player Experience does tell you there is a story ( and there is supposedly, how the races hate and like each other and so forth, not sure but lore used to be big in FW, perhaps someone can confirm if that is the case or not nowadays)
But the tutorial should mention that it is the player that makes the story, (perhaps even an in game history lesson of who the “big” names are at this time if a player decides to find out more, or the corps and alliances that are doing there thing and making a splash in the world)
but I agree, storyline NPE is a bad way to get people to what EVE truly is. unless CCP does start doing more story based things that effect the EVE world.
That being said, i still want to push for rookies getting a decent fitted ship (kinda want to say two one for pve and one for pvp) once they get going. or at least that new bean fittings on the fitting screen so they can so most common fits?
None of the above, I’d rather see null bloc’s not require capital’s of their members and see it only as a bonus I’d prefer an Eve without capital’s but I’d settle for a Eve where Capital’s aren’t the be all end all.
Sorry for ruining it.
Trust me, you wouldn’t have gotten anywhere.
People aren’t getting smarter anymore.
“Why do you think the gaming industry targets exactly these kinds of people?”
Because they promise the biggest amounts of money.
“Why do they promise the biggest amounts of money?”
Because they’re legion, they’re growing in numbers and they’ve been raised into playing stupid games that are insulting to most people who played video games in the 80s.
“How can you claim they’re growing in numbers?”
Because the industry has been at this for long enough that the current generation grew up with it, perceiving it as normal. They didn’t grow up with 80s games. The coming generation of players grows up with gaming even worse than what the current ones grew up with and the generation following that one will also grow up with what’s just going to be even more psychological abuse.
It’s not actually about a Titan. He’s just reducing it to NullSec, but it’s worse than that. It’s actually all over the industry. You could also call it “Golden Ammo” and it wouldn’t be too far off.
Use the Titan as a status symbol. It’s a penis. A big, fat, throbbing penis. These people are being raised into believing that they can buy “social standing”. Consumerism. Buy a big car, a big TV, an expensive watch. Why do you “vanity items” exist?
These people want to buy their way up the social ladder. They don’t want to do the work, because they’re actually incapable of doing the work. They compensate their real-life-loserhood by throwing money at ■■■■ so equally weak-willied people hate them for it.
“Skill Injectors” (aka time skipping your way to the top) specifically aim at those people, because they’re a huge cash cow. “Golden Ammo” is fundamentally the same. You buy yourself up the ladder. Titans … the same. Monocles … the same. You get the point.
I have no problem with the training. but no skill should be longer than a paid month sub. (it would still take a while to get those skills to 5, but i think this is just a wish on my part as I miss getting skills trained on somewhat a normal based time, though then you will run into well BPO research and … )
That being said there should be reasons no to have people start the long train towards caps right away, but to be competitive in 00 it is what is needed.
(though i think the “caps proliferation” has been beaten to death, i am not sure where ccp stands on it perhaps @CCP_Falcon or someone can tell us if they like the fact caps are the end goal? they might have but i’m not sure, they where cool when there numbers where low, not where they are today in my eyes, most cap skills are the longest to train)
@Runa_Yamaguchi I think some leave cause they cannot (it is today’s world after all) but I think the corp asking them to train towards caps is more the problem.
Eve is not dying its in flux, CCP needs only to listen to the player’s, they are all pretty loud on the exact same topics but those topics are not being addressed.
I come back for the fond memories of lowsec Frigate PvP and to finally try FW but it’s been at T1 for weeks and the PvP is so rare, the rewards aren’t worth the time. Also, no FW or lowsec CSM won so not only is FW not on CCP table but generally not in the players mind either. (I’m assuming)
I’ve got to find a new game to play within Eve. Maybe missions?
No, they shouldn’t, because the current crop of players are mostly Farmers …
… and Farmers literally kill games with their endless demands for changes of the status quo.
