Nerf AFK moon mining

[Aiko_Danuja]

I suppose most players aren’t aware this occurs (even gankers are surprised when I show them). Currently, and for the past few years, there has been a trend for Orcas to engage in mass AFK moon mining. Common offender systems include Airaken, Keberz, Ikami/Purjola, Aphi/Jakri/Nidupad, and Aramachi. Each system will generally have dozens of Orcas, and no Exhumers/Barges, all AFK mining with drones. This is not one Orca — it’s dozens per system, across multiple systems, continuously.

AFK gameplay is not good gameplay, and players should not be rewarded for not playing the game. At any given moment, more than a hundred accounts are continuously grinding in Highsec. These appear to be nullsec and lowsec groups (looking at you Panfam), which use Highsec mining alts to keep their dread and super pilots PLEXd on standby. I’d be fine with a buff to active mining, but AFK mining needs a nerf. It is unfair to other miners, who watch as the value of their ore drops because of continual AFK extraction. It is unfair to every active player, who isn’t receiving passive income. This is unfair to new players, who don’t have access to the Orca.

I have heard CCP staff and celebrities (Suitonia comes to mind) insist miners are not AFK. I don’t think these Orcas are actually sitting there 24 hours a day, watching their drone go back and forth. They are most certainly AFK (which is how I’m able to keep killing their MTUs). They aren’t paying attention. They are probably not even at home.

There is no reasonable counterplay to this ‘gameplay’. Nobody is so bored that they want to sit and bump 50 Orcas. Meanwhile, ganking is not realistic due to cost structure. I’ve heard many naive players suggest gankers will gank anything, because we will just bring more DPS. There is this myth gankers will kill anything. In fact, nobody wants to swipe a credit card in order to fix CCP’s economy. We certainly aren’t going to pay to gank Orcas.

I would encourage CCP to take meaningful effort to ensure players are only rewarded for ACTIVE gameplay. I am personally of the opinion that mining should have some sort of minigame, which acts as a CAPTCHA to ensure the individual is at their keyboard. I suggest mining Tetris, where miners have to navigate ore into their cargohold. Perhaps Orcas should not have mining drones, or perhaps the EHP of the Orca should be reduced. Certainly, something should be done, to disincentivize AFK mining in Highsec.

TLDR: Reward active gameplay, not passive.

[Dyver_Phycad]

C-Type Mining their roids/ice blocks? Iirc these crystals were created specifically for this kind of hostile gameplay.

[Aiko_Danuja]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Please don’t explain.

[Anna_Dyneaux]

Add a special mid-slot ewar module that takes two minutes to cycle, but once done it will polarise the target ship for five minutes, reducing all resistances to zero. Any active player will see the beam from the module and know it’s time to warp out, but an AFK miner will just happily sit there while his ship becomes a wide-open target.

[Lugburz]

let me explain..

rock stronk need kill with lazors?

[Akkar_Kardashev]

When mining, put the player into a first person mining simulation where they point the laser at rocks and mine them.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Maybe it should work like a Titan doomsday.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Dyver_Phycad

C-Type Mining their roids/ice blocks? Iirc these crystals were created specifically for this kind of hostile gameplay.

Those are completely inefficient and only about 50% faster than Type BII mining.

If a fleet of miners can sit mining for 12 hours, this means to ‘counter them’ you need to spend 8 hours mining with near zero pay and zero interaction.

That’s not a counter. At least not until type C crystals are made magnitudes faster at destroying rocks than type B.

I agree that AFK playstyles should not nearly be as rewarding as active playstyles, and that AFK mining devalues the activity of mining.

[Cassian_Vale]

I think they should take the mechanics from Deep Flow Rifts and apply something similar to mining.

[Akkar_Kardashev]

I first envisioned a mech suit but I don’t want mining to become too fun

[quote=“Cassian Vale, post:9, topic:510142, full:true, username:Cassian_Vale”]

I think they should take the mechanics from Deep Flow Rifts and apply something similar to mining.

[/quote]

Probably the best shout so far

[Remi_Lacroix]

2 sides to that poison coin.

AFK and botters devalue product.

Cheap materials for production leads to more conflicts, which leads to more destruction, which leads to more farming and building.

It’s much easier to throw ships at people when the ships dont cost your first born child.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Remi_Lacroix

Cheap materials for production leads to more conflicts, which leads to more destruction, which leads to more farming and building.

It’s much easier to throw ships at people when the ships dont cost your first born child.

I don’t think this is mathematically or economically correct. The conflicts will happen the same either way. Ship values range from less than a million isk to well more than a hundred billion. The injection of more resources does not cause more conflict. It just means people use larger ships, leading to a stagnant meta in which there are too many large ships and very little role for smaller cheaper ships. For example, the proliferation of disposable keepstars is a consequence of over-production, which leads to lower quality content. EvE would be a lot more fun if people were flying frigates and cruisers, instead of dreads and titans.

[Remi_Lacroix]

@Aiko_Danuja

I don’t think this is mathematically or economically correct

I seem to recall scarcity leading to a bit of stagnation

[Aiko_Danuja]

Scarcity didn’t last long enough for the consequences to be visible. Players threw a temper tantrum, but manufactured outrage is not real. CCP should have just ignored it and things would have been for the better.

[Godfrey_Penderghast]

A mining minigame is something that I’ve been suggesting for years to reduce or eliminate AFK mining.

If its done it should be done right. Miners should be made to “Chase” their mining crits by playing the game and should get nothing otherwise.

Chasing an ore seam on randomized asteroid images or depictions on their hud would let them mine. Simply by “Tracing” a line that represents the ore seam with their mouse cursor would be enough.

If they desire crits they can get those by clicking in specific places when a shine or glimmer is shown.

[Remi_Lacroix]

[Asgidur_Hurtini]

You made 3 right statements, but your conclusion is not right.

You linked the 1st statement with the 2 others, you can’t do that, AFK and Botters have no obligation to sell you cheap, and if anything they will use no effort against real effort diminishing the real value.

Now you took advantage of Aikos distraction and validated your point as concrete jumping to scarcity.

Nop, not on my watch. Try again.

[Aiko_Danuja]

ChatGPT just regurgiates what people on this forum say.

It is not a meaningful source of data.

[Remi_Lacroix]

So you do not believe scarcity caused stagnation?

[Aiko_Danuja]

No, I believe nullblocs caused stagnation, in order to manipulate CCP. CCP should stop listening to them and return to scarcity with blackout.