I wouldn’t want UPvP removed from that game either, but there should be conditions for it, like a war declaration or a duel invite. And agree there is no way to get toxicity out of the game, but if minimized and a good community around the game will keep it in check.
Calm down, ganker…you could go on here; you don’t have to make comments really to be toxic. I think CCP letting the TTT be allowed in the game is Toxic. It pisses a lot of groups off and is BS on a lot of levels. But verbal toxicity in local is not welcomed either. I haven’t seen a lot of this but I am sure it is out there, so from my standpoint, agree it isn’t a huge number.
If like a toxic FC example it should be the individual. But I believe you are 100% going words only is toxic. A toxic environment can be created with a single word. I am newish to the game, I have my skills to finally mine in a T1 barge. I get in it, you swop in and kill my ship. I can do nothing about it, I couldn’t really prevent it, and you want to call this UPVP.
It just isn’t worth it, and people won’t invest in a game like that.
For the verbal part of toxic players yes EULA and booting individuals out of the game is the way to go. But for all the other toxic game styles, I think better balancing in game. It is okay to be a criminal, but they should lose something like a criminal would. A better balance of drops, harder access to anything high sec, and the list goes on. It should be really hard for a criminal in high sec, and very easy for a criminal in Null.
No but I am very interested into the mental health of the cause and effect of the game.
What I miss in this whole discussion is a bit of roleplay sportsmanship. I assume most of the “Gankers” are just people wanting to have fun in the game (and like in most competitive games, for some the most fun is naturally generated on the expense of others. Aka farming tears.). So they use every option the game gives them. Fine with that.
But so are the guys who want to play the game as “Law Enforcers”, think about a JudgeDredd playstyle in space. Get an armed-to-the-teeth spaceship, a licence to kill and a holy mission to bring the Law over any criminal you can catch. Why isn’t that okay too? One isn’t automatically a bitter nerd by enjoying that idea.
You are making the assumption that ganking is PvP, and it isn’t. It is ganking, not PvP, PvP are ships that can shoot back, and that they don’t do. I make the assumption that seal clubbing is preferred because there is tons of it. If you pushed all the gankers to low, don’t you think there would be more opportunity for these fearless pilots to go head to head in their cats and we can get back to N+1 logic.
Huge pusher for this, I think if a “Law Enforcers” as you put it takes out a criminal cap then they should get a good amount of LP for it. This would create a new game style that would slow down gankers and make them have a counter play in game, where it isn’t so predictable anymore.
It is your opinion that ganking isn’t pvp it is not a factual statement. There is an argument to say that someone undocking might not yet understand the kind of game they play but for the most part they do.
Pvp isn’t defined by ships and guns.
The market is pvp. Players pitting themselves against eachother using their resources and savvy.
Diplomacy is pvp players using their social skills and intellect to resolve problems in a way that is most favourable to them or atleast doesn’t overly favour the other side.
Industry is pvp because eve has a dynamic and competitive market.
If a miner with no interest in pvp as defined by you undocks and mines a belt and I am also a miner he is engaging in pvp versus me because he is competing with me for the same rocks, minerals, ore. Now I can choose to do a number of things; scale up my operation, undercut him on selling prices, source better mining equipment. Alternatively I can choose to hop into a catalyst and set him back by blowing up his miner before coming back to the belt to mine.
I agree that it is the carebear version of pvp according to my viewpoint; which is far from the popular viewpoint . However it’s still pvp and stating that it isn’t as fact when there are valid arguments otherwise erodes your position of credibility.
I like this idea. Run missions or something for Concorde then through the LP store you can buy a Concorde license and it gives you the right to pew pew low security players in any space you suspect to be up to no good. Pew peeing anyone above negative security and it get immediately rescinded with a massive negative to your own security standing.
The criminals could even have their own corrupt ‘marshals’ in their pocket who pew pew other gankers off their hunting grounds whilst extorting the local miners for protection.
I would advise against that. It opens the door for huge abuse tactics like we had a few years ago with insurance fraud. Any -10er could just shoot himself with an alt, collecting these LP. To make sure nobody can make insane amounts of profits by just shooting himself over and over again (and people are willing to kill themselves a thousand times if nessessary, just to prove heir point), the payouts must be incredibly low, so that the cost of the ship blown up is always a magnitude higher than the best possible payout value from the LP.
At this point the LP would be pretty much worthless. What is gained if the Law Enforcer gets 50.000 ISK for killing 10 Thrashers? Not a motivation at all.
Yeah agree with this. When I was new and heard the CODE propaganda about bot aspirants it seemed odd to me that there are multiboxing (botting?) fleet sucking ice just 2 jumps from Uedama every day whole day and they aren’t bothered.
Came into conclusion that:
they paid CODE to let them be
they are related to CODE in some way
So yes, this propaganda is just that. A propaganda. But that is again something that just one group of gankers did. The rest of us never claimed such thing mainly because we lacked resources to stop it. See these multibox fleets often mine in procurer, or they used to. Small ganker group was not able to do a ■■■■ against them, correctly fitted cheap procurer required ton of characters to kill and even when you managed to do that what happened was that they were back immediately with a replacement. Kinda like alpha strike gankers in front of Jita - you realize it is pointless as you cannot stop them no matter what, the rules are in their favor. And then later everyone switched to hull tank mining orcas which stopped even large groups of gankers from killling bots. The afk mining Orcas were a nightmare back then. We wanted to kill them, but we couldn’t. I was even killing their drones when we were asked to deal with them, but that was kinda cringe…
I agree and I wanted to. But those doing it aren’t stupid, they know how to avoid being ganked and are using proper ships and fit making it nearly impossible or at least very inefficient for gankers to kill them. And when some ganker kills them, they will soon undock with replacement ship and continue botting like nothing happens which further make gankers to believe it is pointless. You won’t get profit from ganking them, not even salt and not even fun. It is waste of time. I suspect they will be an alt of ganker because they know exactly how to use tools available to their disposal to completely drive gankers away. (See some gank-hater posters are posting years here and they still haven’t figured it out )
And of course. CCP didn’t ban them. And it isn’t because nobody reported them. I reported a lot of these “bots” back then, but nothing happened. CCP just couldn’t find a proof that they are botting. That really is hard when the entire activity is AFK based. So if CCP didn’t ban them, then they aren’t bot are they? So in the end, all you can fight against is AFK mining/PVE. And for that goal ganking is perfect. If you aren’t AFK you will escape.
Also. Shouldn’t stopping/killing bots be something that the morally high white knights of the highsec, the Jedi, anti-gankers should be doing? Remember gankers are evil psychopats so why should we care anyway? That should be your job.
Gankers aren’t psychopaths. The closest to a psychopath I’ve ever encountered was the CEO of a small sales company.
I’m sure there are a few people with personality disorders playing eve but if your going to find a psychopath I’d probably start by looking amongst senior leadership in the large alliances. They tend to have pretty big personalities.
I don’t even think the toxic elements of the games are psychopaths. Toxic gamers have more akin with Twitter trolls. The kind of people that will say almost anything to get a rise on the internet when safely behind an avatar/handle but would comparatively moderate themselves quite seriously in the real world.
I agree though, ganking isn’t a solution to botting. The trolls saying ‘but you can always hire a ganker to take care of them’ are just being trolls.
If I was going to hire someone to take care of them it would be a mercenary outfit like black flag but it wouldn’t be sustainable. I would need to bot to maintain the isk income to hire mercs to shut down just one botter.
Nope. Before they were all npc corp. Now they are in corp without structure. At best you can hire mercs to kill an athanor (owned by 1 man corp) if this is moon ore botting fleet, but they are botting and so they will pay mercs more if they would care and thats about it. Or deny mercs content in another way.
It is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, good for the game. In fact it is absolutely essential. Ganking prevents highsec becoming boring. It forces people to learn to fit their ships properly. It is a major exit point for ISK from the game…without which the economy would die. And ironically, the stuff destroyed by gankers is a large part of the source of demand for materials that ganked miners mine for.
In short, Eve is an ecosystem. It contains a balance of predators and prey. And we all know that predators are actually essential to that system…and that bleating over the loss of Bambi is to fail to see that essential relationship.
Ganking is no more good for the game than people losing their ships to any other kind of pvp hell even losing a ship to pve forces you to fit your ships better and fuels the builders economy. So in this respect ganking is a neutral in comparison to other play styles.
Also better is subjective. Ganking applies pressure for people to fit their ships with more tank, it doesn’t force people to fit their ships optimally for the task they are doing. Arguably applying more tank is also a false economy because gankers will just bring enough catalysts to get the job done. If anything the influence of ganking is to convince people to fit cheaply so from the perspective of people trying to sell DED modules it’s harming their business when people who might DED fit a marauder fit it with T2 instead.
There are multiple views on it but ganking is just a play style amongst others that feeds into the sandbox environment. Is it more positive than any others? Probably not. Is it more negative than others? Probably not. Is it good for the game that gankers are playing the game as opposed to not playing the game. Well of course, but that’s not really what we are discussing here.