Then how do you edumacate those who either are too lazy or just don’t want to learn?
Then they must also learn that it’s part of the game. Yet it’s easier to just whine.
This already exists.
is a poor motivation for a game that’s supposed to a fun challenge. Not a cake walk in the park. The goal should be to become good enough at the game where you can prevent you’re getting ganked in the first place. For the most part anyway. It’s never completely foolproof. You can always go for revenge on the side.
I had always been on the backfoot when game mechanics are changed to make it less of risk to Highsec as I believe it is up the the pilot/s to decide when and how much risk they take. The whole New Eden economy should be about risk and right now this is even being controlled by changes to game mechanics.
A example of a major change was a few hours before the release of the announcement about the Omega and Plex Price Increase.
I was logged in and saw the jump (sure I got in early) and the news didn’t hit for another hour so there is that… and am sure due to the TZ many missed out that market jump.
All I hear from everyone (regarding the PCU) is how ganking needs to stop because new players are getting ganked and quitting. In my 2 years in eve, I have been ganked a total of… 1 time. This was when I was autopiloting in a heron with 50 mil of loot in it 3 months after I first joined (or some number like that). I wasn’t angry because I knew exactly it was my fault for autopiloting. I have warped faction and deadspace fit paladins through Ahbazon just because I was too lazy to go the long way… never killed. I’ve fought off a small gang (just targeted and made tackle warp off and warp away XD), solo, in a T3 abyssal fit Phantasm. I was killed AFK ratting in a Gila in null-sec a total of… 1 time. I just don’t seriously believe ganking is a problem. Is it?
It is if you’re part of the “systemic gankism exists and needs to go” crowd where, through virtue posting on newbie’s behalf, you’re collecting forums points to end up on the right side of forum history and thus claim your own victimhood.
While actually, as most carebears are, being far more vile, nasty, negative and problematic than what you accuse others of.
No, the real problem is the existence of high sec mining.
OP correctly observed that ganking is rare. It’s mostly rich transporters that really should know better by now… and miners.
High sec mining makes no sense and is detrimental to the entire game.
Let’s attack the problem from multiple angles.
Thematically: it makes no sense to create pilots integrated with risky hardware to make them vastly superior to normal pilots, only to have them do menial tasks in high security space.
Lorewise: it makes no sense for empires to allow pilots to mine within their borders without paying those empires a single dime.
Gameplay: step 1 = select rock and press F1. Wait and go to step 1. ■■■■ that!
Consequences: since almost everything has trit and pye in the blueprints, there is real incentive for advanced players to push that ■■■■ onto newbies. They lead the players into the worst newbie trap. The scarcity updates only aggravated the problem by concentrating those minerals in high, killing the game even faster.
DELETE high sec mining.
Move the rocks to low sec or something and relax those blueprints to compensate. Then we can move onto the PI problem.
I kinda feel like you - I am being carefull and got gangked like maybye once over the last year ? (I do not count low sec and null destructions, that is something else). But I am never AFK and not doing much mining, so it might be because of that…
Sadly, you’re going to get a bunch of amateur nonsense replies from people with fixed opinions but little knowledge of game design, economic cycles or player psychology and motivation.
I’ll post more detail later, but for now just say:
Yes, HS ganking is somewhat of a problem for the long-term health of EVE. Not one of the big ones though.
No, the problem isn’t what you outline in your OP (newbie ganking harming retention). Or at least, that’s only a very small part of the problem.
Part of the issue is that HS gankers are just as risk-averse as HS carebears, but are lazier.
The actual issue is complicated, but is primarily rooted in the fact that PvP in EVE is disincentivized, and HS ganking is one of the very few ways to tilt the cost/benefit ratio in the PvPers favor.
The PVEr is in complete control. For the most part ganking is an equation. The ganker can see the equation likely will work out on their favor and proceed with the gank sure but they are not in control of the variables.
The PVEr can pick their ship type, fit, location, how they pay attention or not, and many other variables. All the ganker can do is make decisions based on the choices the PVEr makes.
This means it’s relatively easy to avoid being ganked. Those that are ganked simply invite the gank by their own decisions tilting the odds in the ganker’s favor.
Why would anyone repeatedly gank a newbie? Are newbs going to have anything worth ganking? I guess if the newbs leveled up with their CC they might, but if that is the case it seems like a valuable lesson.
No ganker could repeatedly gank a newbie (the same one, or any others) with absolute certainty.
It is impossible to distinguish between a new player and a new character.
Each time I point this out, those determined wringers-of-hands, the white-knights and ladies of the anti-ganking faction (well, some of them..) appear to be stunned into awkward silence.
New players/characters are protected within the ‘Starter’ systems; after that, they’re on their own, and that is fine with me.
So, the question is:
How can a ganker be 100% sure the target in their sights is a new player?
I am convinced 99% of the victims of ganking are the hauler alts of very experienced vets who just were not thinking when they were moving researched BPO’s, skill injectors, or faction modules around.
It’s the biggest, meanest problem of eve.
I say we defund concord since they don’t do their jobs.
I’m just kidding. While I did go on a rant a little bit ago I’ve had time to ponder the situation. You can’t really “fix” highsec ganking unless you are prepared to make some game mechanic changes. From watching others mostly, It seems that very few people actually want PVP. They want to overwhelm to win. a show of dominance and force, even if that means they make a bunch of alts to help tip the numbers.
From reading the ship tree, you’d think pvp fleets would have a wide variety of ships, but it looks more like they just want pure dps and enough beating hearts to overwhelm, and this really just hurts the smaller corps or solo players.
In highsec, how can you possibly stop ganking? While there is no real counterplay to it, there is also no real answer to it. Watching local seems to be the only real defense, and has worked to great success. A few nights ago some corp mates and I found out that safety. was coming into system, so we tethered to the station to watch them. Australian Jesus apparently didnt see that structure when he combat scanned us, so their whole gank force warped in onto the station and got blue balled. He tried bumping us off, but we timed it so that he would jet right through us as we docked. Was kinda funny. Then they left.
Having that experience under my belt now, I really am wondering if everyone they catch is afk to some extent. If so that defeats the whining about safety. It would literally be their own fault.
However, the next day a corp mate went to an aim new player station and saw a whole lot of wrecks from safety. right outside the station. That would seem to indicate that they do infact target new players. I didn’t see who they killed, so maybe it was older players taking advantage of the new system.
Looking through the forums and reddit, you will see someone raging and quitting regularly because they got ganked. I suppose the others are right that it’s a very small percentage compared to the other reasons why people try this game and quit. That still makes it an issue though, doesn’t it?
If the videos I watch on youtube are correct, eve is experiencing a very low number of players compared to just about any time in its history. You’d think that people would want more people to try and stay, but that would mean trying to address a situation that you really cant. Like, how can you stop ganking, but not eliminate pvp? I’ve seen people suggest a setting like in wow so that they have to intentionally flag for pvp in highsec. I’m not sure about that working though. For an economy to function, you need product moving off the shelf. If nobody is being blown up, product doesn’t move. That means isk doesn’t move. Far as I can tell, the eve economy is in serious trouble right now.
CCP has made some very questionable choices under the excuse that the economy was unhealthy because too much product and isk was being moved. Now the movement is much less, and realistically it’s cost prohibitive, especially for newer players to really get into the thick of things. You have to buy plex in order to really even get started. You’re at a huge skill point disadvantage as well as knowledge of game mechanics. For a new player, this game literally turns you into that proverbial fish in a barrel.
I think I am figuring out the secret plan. reduce and eliminate mining and industry over time and just start selling ships for real cash. That mixed with one sided pvp means literally everyone is working towards making eve pay to win.
Change my Mind.
as I said, even if it’s not the biggest issue by statistics, it is still a problem. Unless people are literally making new accounts just to whine on the forums and reddit about gankers, there is at least a % of the incoming and leaving players that do so because they were ganked, usually more than once.
The part I’m not understanding though is if thats a good thing or a bad thing. Even with my mental issues, if I got ganked I don’t think I would come rage on the forums about it. I might break it down to get some input on what I could do better, but I don’t think I would get pissed.
I literally laughed about my caracal being blown up. So the question is are those people that do rage actually mentally and emotionally stable enough to be of net benefit to eve online, or is it better that they leave?
I think that’s more of a question for you older players to answer. I just don’t have enough experience to offer anything but opinions from my specific perspective.
If its not the biggest problem, and thats if we accept it as being a problem, then fixing it will make very little difference and will have been a waste of time and resources, and will, if removed, certainly make a lot of people leave, thusly countering any beneficial result for the company.
I think there was a theory that not being ganked was a cause for leaving eve as it was not exciting enough.
Back when I first started eve I was getting bored as hell until one day I went into low sec and got obliterated and it was a light bulb moment that this game could be so much more.
Maybe we should make threads saying HS ganking is too sparce and not shocking enough new players into an epiphany.
You think EVE’s economy is bad? You should take a look at EVE Echoes, where there’s no high-sec PvP, and low-sec PvP is basically consensual. All of the materials and items are just perpetually dropping in price, while PLEX is perpetually rising (despite a dropping population). One of the biggest complaints is basically the inability for anyone to validate PvE labor.
Yet it’s exactly what these people are asking for to be implemented here. It’s a massive lack of foresight and ostrich syndrome. Why can’t these people just go play that game instead? It will give them exactly what they want.
It’s not a matter of mental/emotional instability. These people are just sheltered suburbanites who went their entire lives without being told “no,” and if it did somehow happen, they’d immediately ask for the manager. They’re not crazy, they’re just entitled.
