Nerf Ganking Megathread

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Tessa_Springfield

That does make sense, but that opens up the question as to who decided the targeted audience? It’s a sandbox game supposedly, but you’re all saying it’s not and should not be. How does that make sense?

Being a sandbox game doesn’t mean that it has to confine itself to one particular type of sandbox. Basically, it’s about giving players greater freedom, more room for creativity, and a larger possibility space -frequently with player defined goals. For example, all the following games are considered to be sandboxes:

• life simulation - the Sims
• City Builder - Simcity
• physics simulator - Universe Sandbox
• FPS - Grand Theft Auto
• ARPG - Fable
• Persistent World PvP - Eve Online

The presence of PvP in Eve doesn’t stop it from being a sandbox, as players still have plenty of freedom and, and still set their own goals. Sure, some strats and tactics can result in suboptimal results, but the same thing holds true for games like Grand Theft Auto and Fable. You can’t make terrible choices and still “win” or find success in those games either. The only difference is that in those games, all challenge and adversity is provided by the environment, while in Eve, challenge and adversity comes from both, the environment, and other players.

Sandboxes give you freedom to do what you want. They do not, however, promise you that you can do whatever you want and not suffer any negative consequences.

And not for nothing, but eve’s particular blend of herbs and spices is pretty damn amazing. You can make friends with other players, sell to them, provide them services, join them, scam them, fight them, destroy their organizations from the inside, ally with them, recruit them to your cause, ignore them -whatever. The freedom of how you can interact with other players is absolutely amazing.

It’s not the PvE that makes Eve special. No one is raving about its minute to minute game play, like they do for Warframe. Eve’s PvE is serviceable at best. Instead, t’s the interactions with other players that truly make this game special. Eve’s PvP provides infinite content, while Eve’s sandbox nature makes that content extremely varied and unpredictable -it’s amazing.

Naturally, I am… somewhat befuddled by the people who want to start putting up walls and closing off possibilities. Of course, some people just don’t want the challenge and unpredictability provided by the game. However, there is also a remarkable number of players in this game who have stories about, “when the game clicked for them.” And, I think this is significant because the presence of so many players having “aha moments” with Eve, implies that there are many players out there that just don’t get it. They do not understand what it is about Eve that truly makes it special.

I hope Eve clicks for you.

[Io_Koval]

I believe ISD’s are volunteers. I seem to remember someone on these forums pasting the volunteer application link (to which i ran very far away).

[Quelanna]

A few years ago, high sec gankers kill mostly mission runners ships that ranged in price from a couple to several hundred billion, the owners of such ships are usually ready for such a turn of events, because these people are obviously not the first day in the game and have heard about the risks of being ganked in high-sec. In addition, such “losses” were generally useful for the economy of the game.

Now, for a number of reasons, the situation has changed dramatically. High-sec gankers destroy everything, regardless of the cost of the ship, and in most cases, newcomers are their victims. For the newbie who saved up for a cheap battleship for several weeks, such a loss may well turn out to be fatal, and become the reason for leaving the game.

Eve-Online is vast and mechanically unlike any other game, so the path for a beginner to comprehend all the intricacies of the game is quite long. But almost everyone, like me, he went through 4 missions,
despite the meager income. This is one of the less boring and repetitive types of PVE for a beginner. Gives a good foundation for understanding the mechanics, introduces the plot. Rookie having saved up for his first ship has every chance of losing him on a mission, due to lack of experience, weak fit and a small amount of SP. In the current realities, there is also a very big chance of losing your ship by meeting suiciders, after he will have to save up for a couple more weeks for a new ship, having rolled back in development, because of people who enjoy humiliation.

In fact, PVP is almost 100% closed for a beginner, because the chance to meet the same beginner in lowsec / zeros tends to 0. Usually, all sorties end with a meeting of a stronger opponent with a large number advantage after a certain number of jumps on empty systems. Also, high sec gankers will not let you earn money for a new ship.

When I started playing, I knew about suiciders, and I saw PVE fits in an expensive body kit on the killboard, and I was sure that this would not affect me, who needs my Raven in t1 fit? I earned frigates/destroyers on t1 and enjoyed soloing in lowsec, but now farm t4 missions are closed for a beginner. Of course, there are Abysses, but 1 hour of farming the same dungeon, in the same system, just drives you into melancholy and despondency. And actually not an illusory chance to lose your Gila after the output of Abyss about 4-5 destroyers.

Maybe I’m wrong, and this is not such a significant reason why players leave, and in particular newcomers. But perhaps it makes sense to collect statistics, how many of those who were killed by gankers in highsec left game forever. It is hardly difficult and will require a lot of resources.

In any case, it makes sense to slightly close the hole through which online flows.

[Snowflake_Tem]

There are privacy issues here that need to be considered.
The data collection topic is deep and dangerous.

[Quelanna]

Means zkillboard is in serious danger!

[Snowflake_Tem]

It is, but not because for the reason you seem to be suggesting by association.
zkill relies on voluntary submission.

[Arzimraton_Aivoras]

The developers made it possible to clean up the ss cheaply, by getting tags by bug. Lowered the resistors. This cart is uncontrollable and rushes into the abyss, humble yourself.

[Etch_Masuka]

CCP are already doing this.

It’s why they flat out came out and said that new players that experienced destruction early in their careers were MORE likely to stick with the game than those that did not.

Seems a bit counter intuitive but if you think about it many new players that leave are actually maybe 1, 2 or 3 months old. And my theory would be that if you have partly through skill partly through luck managed to avoid gankers for 3 months………started to feel safe…….blinged a ship and then out of the blue lose that ship. Then well you are going rage quite and rage on the forums.

But is ganking the problem. Maybe the new player experience should expose players to MORE destruction so they get used to it. Maybe new bro corps should quit giving new members the “dont PVP till your ready. Just stay here and Krab safely” script and actually promote a bit more on the fun explosions side.

Ganking is an intended mechanic and while it has downsides i think the game is better for it. I’m not repeating myself on that. My views are plastered over every ganking thread in this forum now.

Another thing to highlight is that CCP GM’s make contact with new players that have lost a ship these days. You get a mail or a private chat invite to maybe explain a little about why you blew up and also to give you some free ships and modules. So CCP are looking at it as an issue (despite the it helps retention stance).

So in short i think CCP have more to do on the NPE side. And we the players have more to do with newbies in corp to improve an active play mindset. Gankers are here to stay.

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Quelanna

But perhaps it makes sense to collect statistics, how many of those who were killed by gankers in highsec left game forever

I have not the slightest doubt that a portion of people leave the game due to ganking. But it’s probably smaller than the number who leave due to the learning curve being too steep and long.

CCP can deal with the latter…but I think the former is very much a random thing and depends how soon after joining the gank occurs, and the nature of it. I think people then divide into two camps…

1. Those ( like myself ) who adopt a Khan type ‘vengeance’ attitude. In a sense, being ganked draws one further into the game, and I think this is the intended response and the sort of person Eve is actually aimed at.

2. Those who think it is too much effort or annoyance to continue and ( mistakenly, in my view ) think they’ll just get ganked ad infinitum and never be able to cope so what’s the point.

Response (2) is based entirely on immediate perception of things, and could easily be pre-empted by the simple means of CCP adding a short lesson on ganking to the intro all noobs have.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Quelanna

PVP is almost 100% closed for a beginner

I heard ganking is super easy and profitable - so new players can gank, right?

[Vinnegar_Douche]

@Quelanna

In fact, PVP is almost 100% closed for a beginner, because the chance to meet the same beginner in lowsec / zeros tends to 0.

FAKE NEWS - A day 1 pilot can make explosions on the reg. No one is telling them how to do it is the real problem.

There is so much focus on MAKE ISK FAST greedy gameplay. This is rooted in the huge lie that Eve Online is a game where you can earn in-game money to pay for your account… This lie is the real thing that makes newbros quit.

The only thing 100% closed off for a beginner is unrealistic expectation of realizing the PLEX my sub lie.

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Etch_Masuka

It’s why they flat out came out and said that new players that experienced destruction early in their careers were MORE likely to stick with the game than those that did not.

Well…that too. In fact I left out category 3…those who would have left the game out of boredom if they hadn’t been ganked. Which probably includes me.

But I think a person’s response could swing either way…depending on what they had for breakfast. I think it is very much a knife edge thing and not something you can write a mathematical formula for. The same person might leave in one multiverse and stay in another.

[Etch_Masuka]

Interesting. I thought i was blocked and that one would never read any of my amazing insights ever again.

Wonderful to see you are no longer behaving like a 3 year old

[Yonniya_Rainor]

@Quelanna

For the newbie who saved up for a cheap battleship for several weeks, such a loss may well turn out to be fatal, and become the reason for leaving the game.

Not to sound harsh but why would anyone purchase something that is either irreplaceable or puts their operating budget at risk? Companies and individuals in real life never do this ---- well, most don’t. There are those who financially plan using the body part they sit on.

As you mentioned, the rule of “Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose” is introduced to new players in the Career Agent missions. I remember that lesson well from 30 days ago and it still guides me when making purchases in the Regional Market. There’s also the very obvious (yet still amazingly missed) point this is a PvP game. Personal loss is not only possible, it can also be costly when it happens at a moment of vulnerability. Remember also that there are player groups that make personal loss a business reason, or at least because it’s their idea of fun.

Off-game, I’m very risk-adverse in my personal finances and retirement portfolio, and I take that mentality into the game as a result. My personal rule is if I don’t have enough ISK to easily replace a lost item at least 5 times in a row within a short period of time, I shouldn’t buy it. That might limit me from getting larger ships but I’m well-protected from the actions of other players.

Something the players you mentioned should have prepared for from the start.

[Snowflake_Tem]

@Yonniya_Rainor

I’m very risk-adverse in my personal finances and retirement portfolio,

I’d triple check your pensions if I were you.

Speaking of getting ganked; I would like to hear a statement from CCP reassuring me that the have some plan to weather the financial storm slash reset.

That is one outflow even that requires a firm hand at the tiller to manage.
CCP plz

[Cilla_Cybin]

@Yonniya_Rainor

There’s also the very obvious (yet still amazingly missed) point this is a PvP game. Personal loss is not only possible, it can also be costly when it happens at a moment of vulnerability.

I was lucky some random person in Rookie Help gave me 20m ISK…which seemed so vast a fortune at the time that I then gave 1m ISK of it to another noob. Back then, 1bn ISK seemed inconceivable. These days, I never let my ISK go below 2bn ISK…and even that doesn’t seem much.

Rookie Help was always full of people saying ’ I lost my ship and have no ISK’. Its amazing how few know about free corvettes…in fact it was 2 months into the game before I realised I could get a free corvette at stations. That’s the real problem with being a noob…nothing is obvious. I suspect more people leave the game because they missed some ‘obvious’ solution to some issue than have ever left due to ganking, though.

[Etch_Masuka]

@Yonniya_Rainor

Not to sound harsh but why would anyone purchase something that is either irreplaceable or puts their operating budget at risk? Companies and individuals in real life never do this ---- well, most anyways. There are those who financially plan using the wrong part of their body.

@Yonniya_Rainor

Something the players you mentioned should have done from the start.

Yes and no.

You are of course totally right. Its like poker. In theory you need some bank roll management so you can deal with the swings. Because even if you fly well constantly you can find yourself in a no win situation. A ship will be lost.

I can relate completely to what you say. Ive been here almost 2 years and can count the times I’ve sat in a battleship on my fingers. I just don’t find them enjoyable to fly.

But in the context of new players………If we want them to stay things need to be fun. And telling them to manage there money and have a contingency is not fun.

It’s more a question of education and approach in my mind. Instead of letting newbies focus on “bigger = better” and rushing to get battleship skills there should be more of a focus on “look at all these fun things you can do in frigates”. Affordable fast fun ships.

Related to new players losing battleships there is an element of ………just because you can sit in it doesn’t mean you can fly it. There are so many other skills that impact how effective you will be in one of those that even if you can undock in it you could be pretty hamstrung.

So again more i think could be in the NPE

[Arzimraton_Aivoras]

@Etch_Masuka

It’s why they flat out came out and said that new players that experienced destruction early in their careers were MORE likely to stick with the game than those that did not.

Tell me how a rookie who has spent 2 weeks of his life earning an ISK for Raven, after a couple of missions, killed by gankers, is more likely to stay in the game?

Are these fairy tales from those who are too lazy to do their job and look for a solution to the problem?

Why think? Write nonsense and call it a theory, these are modern trends, you don’t understand!

[Yonniya_Rainor]

@Snowflake_Tem

I’d triple check your pensions if I were you.

A fair point and VERY good advice. Just last week, I had a zoom meeting with my financial planner about my retirement portfolio and how current events might impact it. Without going into too much detail, she told me I would suffer very little fallout from what’s going on and would easily recover any ground lost.

To insert a bit of dark humour in the conversation, this does not include radioactive fallout.

[Arzimraton_Aivoras]

The problem is not the suicide as such, but the fact that he was encouraged. Huge drop in prices for tags, reduction in resists.

And as for theories, the gunswarm federation is stirring up something with ore and resources, for this they created a team aimed at discouraging the desire to dig in high-sec. It is also possible that someone is lobbying, but these are all theories of course.