I think there is a lot of truth to this comment. And why I like one of my thoughts where you can opt-in or out of PvP in high sec only. Without going into the ins and outs of that, this would give a player an option to grow a few months and get a feel for the game. And if they wanted to have that thrill of PvP they can opt back in with a timer kind like clone jumping.
JJ
One problem with finding the middle ground on this subject seems to be that we always recursively call where we are one extreme and the elimination of highsec PvP the other so that the middle ground slides closer to no highsec PvP with every compromise.
The true extremes we’re looking for a middle ground to are totally unrestricted and unpunished PvP and no PvP at all. We are in a ‘middle ground that works’ already. You can PvP, but it costs you your ship every time. The defender need only task themselves with surviving the few seconds it takes for an attacking ship to be destroyed by an unstoppable NPC force.
Nobody is ‘forced’ to deal with playing an always on PvP game. If people choose not to play it, nothing bad happens to them. They can spend their time doing something they do enjoy. The game that every single human being on earth likes does not exist. People will play a game for a reason, and other people will quit a game for that exact same reason. That people do not like a feature of a game just proves they don’t like that game, not that it’s a bad game or a bad feature.
What difference does that make. Newbie joins game day 1. Day 2 applies to a corp and is accepted. Day 3 relocates to the corps HQ and makes a 30 jump trip across highsec. are they all going to be 1.0 systems? No they are not. So newbies will still come up against diamond rats in 0.5 and 0.6 systems unless they forever stay in safer space.
Thats going to be way worse for new players than gankers are.
Players that know the mechanics will be unaffected because they know how to avoid diamond rats.
All this does is create absolute safety for established players and make life for new players far more difficult.
Yeah agree, I don’t want ganker activities removed from the game as I chat with some of the people here. But there needs to be a balance in there, if that is opt-out of PvP and get less reward. Or something of that nature. The people that don’t mind being subject to a gank to more reward for the activities they get.
The unbalance here is the cost to gank to a person that can’t stop the engagement or doesn’t want to be in the engagement. If you ganked a T1 mining barge fitted out that was 60M for example, and it cost you let’s say 50M to do it. Then yes I would say that is close enough to balance. Today you can wipe out a T1 Barge it isn’t far from the 60M can be ganked with roughly 24M. Does that really seem balanced?
I would have to argue, if I am playing my game that has nothing to do with you and you engage me and blow my ship up and I have to go now and get a new ship, fit everything out, you are wasting my time, and forcing me to spend time on your activity that I want nothing to do with.
And on this thread this is what I am arguing for. Get rid of ganking, and if they don’t like it they can quite or go to low sec. It is a small community anyhow, and no one would miss them, honestly not one person.
JJ
Wow. Just… wow. At least you’re honest, I guess.
There is always the chance, yes, but you could look at code that allows players under 30 days, or 60 days to not be targeted. You could also make it where rats don’t just attack, they have the ability to scan and see an estimated cost and see if you are worth ganking. Something along those lines could be a solution in hard coding. And the rats will kill more players, but the loss is different as we have discussed before, from a NPC killing (like you are used to in most games) to a player doing it.
It is close to that anyhow, and vets should be respected as a vet. This is normal mechanics in any game. However, if tackled in a freighter or mining ship by a rat, you need help or you die. Ganks typically happen so fast you couldn’t respond to help even if you wanted to. NPC if you were a vet on the gate and saw an NPC tackling them you could help.
JJ
Im silightly amused but how much you just didnt get this. AT ALL lol
Okay maybe I was a little over the top, but you can’t say you were not either but essentially saying if you don’t like how it is quiet. Or that is how I read it. But honestly, Eve is a huge game, there is plenty of room for everyone, how do we get that accomplished I mean I am trying to throw ideas out there, but doesn’t seem anyone likes any of them. However, from another post, the same people don’t like anyone’s ideas…
JJ
so we are piling on more and more developer work to make the game worse. I really can’t get my head round this at all. To me what you are suggesting would absolutely destroy the game.
I disagree with plenty of people on these forums but i have to say out of all those i dont think I’ve ever encountered someone that is so disconnected from what Eve actually is.
Coming back to what destiny said earlier. What you are asking for exists in large part. Its called Eve Echoes. Give that a try and report back on how you find that experience.
I agree. Why not increase the time it takes concord to respond. That would have some interesting effects. This a fixable problem. It doesnt require removing playstyles and interactions form the game.
I am of the opinion Eve is not a game for everyone. I wouldn’t wish that impossible expectation upon any game.
The point of the gaming market is that there’s tons of different games for tons of different people. Not one game for tons of different people.
There’s arguments to be made about how to make Eve more popular. About how to make it more accessible. About how to make it more appealing. I would rather the game lean into the single universe PvP-always-on aspect and capture more people that enjoy that activity which keeps people that are already here, than go in a direction that abandons the existing player base to chase a different gaming demographic.
agree. Of the hundreds of high sec systems there are only a handful that ever have ganking activity. Its perfectly possible to play this game for months and never see a ganker.
Its an overstated problem.
Yes, more developer time is needed, that is what we are paying for correct. Please expand on how this would destroy the game? I don’t feel it will, maybe I am missing your wise experience.
Please explain this disconnect? Is there something I am failing to understand?
I have tried Eve Echoes day one it started, I didn’t like it much played for about a month maybe two off and on, but just didn’t like the phone and the controls. Been playing Eve too long and need the keyboard and mouse.
You could increase the concord time and reduce the damage taken. Maybe you are on to another idea, for another option to add to the list, hear me out.
PvP without content gets a 50% nerf to damage and the defender gets a 50% buff to damage, you can play around with the %. This way it is long enough for friends could help, increases the risk for the ganker to lose, or at least the defender kills a few ships, which may make them feel less at a loss.
JJ
sigh. For like the 10th time
lack of diversity in space, reducing player interactions, impact on the economy, lack of consequences from choices.
Eve is an an always on PVP sandbox.
No. Please stop
On the off chance that this actually helps someone enjoy their time more, you can use an emulator to play Echos on PC. I have never tried as I am not interested in Echos so I can’t speak to the quality of the game experience, but if you like the idea of an Eve with no highsec PvP, this could potentially give everyone what they want without changing the original Eve Online.
https://www.bluestacks.com/apps/role-playing/eve-echoes-on-pc.html
You tricked me I really thought you had something up your selve.
I see your confusion, Eve isn’t a PvP sandbox. It is referred to as an Open World Sandbox. I think this one statement might solve a lot of our back and forth. Now I see where you thoughts were coming from.
Your idea not mine, to be honest I thought maybe had a little merit to it.
JJ
The whole ‘cowards’ thing is just patent nonsense. One could make the case that a lowsec gate camp is ‘cowardly’…or that a Catalyst attacking a Venture in lowsec is more ‘cowardly’ than the same act in highsec. What standard are you using to decide that lowsec or null are full of brave heroes ?
Really nice of you to find that link and come back here with it. I love Eve and my main isn’t in high sec. Jesse is and we talked about maybe doing proving grounds with him in high sec with access to a lot more things, but we will see. Zero plans to move out of the game for a long time.
My goal here is to have good arguments around the value or none value of ganking. I don’t mind throwing out crazy ideas because the discussion needs to start somewhere. We sound like broken records on here because the arguments are not understood mostly. And we all have opinions and can’t put that to the side for a minute or two.
It is fairly normal in people, if you like something one way or the other you get pretty passionate about it, which is fine.
JJ
WOW
You are definitely going to need to explain that one.
NPC’s will result in next to zero destruction. You said your main lives in null right? So you must fly past rats on gates constantly right? Have you ever lost a ship to those? I assume not unless you stupidly sat at a gate while afk or were tackled there by another player.
So how would you alter the behaviour of those NPC’s so that occassionally you would lose a ship to them. Remember………your suggestion is that NPC repalce destruction. In order to do that they need to be a competant gate camp 
no. My ideas was to increase the response time of concord. You know…….like i typed in my post. Changing that to if this happens damage reduces to 50% and if this happens is cumbersome, over complicated and again bad for newbies that have enough to learn as it is. Saying nonsense like this is my idea is a massive misrepresentation of what ive said.
I was ruffling your feathers but you took like 8 hours to respond. Etch has worn me down all day, so I will try my hardest here for you because you deserve it.
Low Sec Gate camp could be looked at in that manner, but low sec ganks don’t exist. It really is PvP in that area, no Concord coming for you. And no issues with that and how the space should be treated. Same with the Catalyst although I can’t say it is special, I can’t say its ganking either. Yes, it could be zkill padding, but no one cares if you killed 100 venture, it surely isn’t going to scare anyone off I know of.
What makes WH and Null heroes nothing really. To the Lore it is the Wild West of space, hint the name. But nothing special about it. It is simply a space with no Concord and not owned by an Empire. With a little patience and guidance, I believe anyone could thrive in Null.
JJ
He explained to me his main is a noble brave nullsec PVP-er that does gentlemanly group PVP in low sec.