You slither about and change the ‘argument’ every 5 seconds. As others have said, you never actually directly respond to what anyone says…you evade it and go off on some tangent.
How the hell else would you interact with people in a PvP combat game ? Again you just slither your way round things.
Well, I’m not exactly a hindu cow. I mean, armies of guys who don’t know what they are talking about, carebearsplaining to me how ganking works, and why it’s unbalanced, as they lobby to nuke a play style and/or turn Eve into a boring grindfest… yeah, I can get frustrated sometimes myself. However, I’m hoping to turn some of these guys to the darkside (hello Tesso and forum lurkers), and I’m trying not to let my frustrations get in the way of furthering my own agenda (namely, preserve/restore eve’s challenging and PvP focused nature).
Unfortunately, it feels like we’re losing this fight. Not only are we outnumbered, but CCP seems to be catering more and more to these guys (even if they have been moving slowly), and their fanfest presentation about ganking has me extremely worried they might throw us under the bus. I have some ideas for what to do next, but I’m also busy in real life right now. So, I keep posting to the forums, because it’s easy to write posts here and there when I have some downtime. I dunno. I might have to re-prioritize some things (sleep is a crutch), and try to make better use of the free time that I do have.
And, it’s not your imagination. The average thread that gets posted to C&P has changed. IIRC, Destiny said it started changing back in 2010/11, but I’ve noticed a change even since I started hanging out on the forums (iirc, around 2017).
Anyway, you might want to edit your post to be a scoach more tactful, or it will eventually get autodeleted.
You invite PvP the minute you undock. The act of undocking IS that consent. If you don’t want to be ‘part of that roleplay’ then go plough fields in Farmville instead.
I would argue that there are various forms of ganking…of which suicide ganking is the prevalent form in highsec…but that everyone who shoots up other player ships is essentially a ganker. Why deem lowsec and nullsec to be any different just because Concord don’t show up ?
Far more Ventures and barges get blown up in Lowsec…yet nobody ever mentions that in ‘nerf ganking’ threads.
Okay, I’m on your side here, but I feel like you’re giving JJ a leg to stand on.
MMO’s don’t necessarily have to have PvP, and even a PvP focused MMO can feature cooperative play. So, yes, this is a PvP-focused MMO, and you do consent to PvP when you undock, but you are also free to interact with fellow players in other ways (or to try to avoid directly interacting with them as much as possible).
Does that make sense?
I was one of those people who chose ‘other ways’. 2 things were a significant blow to my interest along these lines. (There are other things, too, but not relevant to this thread.)
One was that there were fewer criminals. Not a lot of people would show up to cause trouble, so there wasn’t a whole lot for me to try an organize a resistance to. I set up shop in lowsec to generate some kind of response that would be of interest.
The second is that even if there were criminals about, fewer players were willing to put up any kind of resistance like they used to. I set my bar for ‘resisting’ very low, being that I’m not into PvP myself. All I want, basically, is for people to play and endure through it somehow. However, people would more often just log off or give up even if there were not credible threats in the immediate area.
Having people to assist was important to my enjoyment, and for that I need both the problem and the people, either of which had become hard to find.
No…because you are then handing JJ the right to say ’ Hey…I’m busy doing PvE…you can’t shoot me !'.
The reality, of course, is that when I was doing combat anomalies the other day and Ax’l Thorne was in the system, I kept a constant eye out for him…precisely because blapping me in the middle of PvE is entirely allowed and expected.
And that is the entire gist of JJ’s ‘argument’. He wants people to just be able to shut themselves off and do PvE…mining, combat anomalies, etc, etc…without any danger of real players attacking. In his perfect world, highsec would be 100% PvE. And what JJ simply doesn’t grasp is that a 100% PvE highsec is barely a multiplayer game and might just as well be a solo game with NPCs.
Awesome, this right here is good stuff. I can get behind this.
And, just to be clear, I agree with your feelings on the matter, I just felt like some of your supporting points gave him a leg to stand on that he shouldn’t have had. So, yeah, I am most certainly not trying to take the side of someone who, as far as I’m concerned, wants to ruin this game. Just thought some of your supporting arguments gave him an avenue of attack.
His ilk ruined the game a long time ago. From what’s left of the game, I say just let them have candy crush in space.
I use my large pile of “stuff” to gauge how the games going. I thought my assets would go up, but instead have dropped 20 bil in worth over the past few months. I was surprised since I thought it would have gone up? 
And did it ever occur to anyone that a miner can be one the best pvp’ers?
A miner does not need to get a single kill to be good at pvp. If said miner time after time is alert and aware and continually escapes a gank, he becomes better at pvp. Time and time again, gankers try to catch him and don’t. To the point that gankers give up trying to catch him? (Maybe)
Seems like he’s pretty good at pvp to me! 
A lot more of the candy crushers should make this kind of effort and simply give gankers no targets. Oh, wait, that would take a little effort. Never mind…
I’ve gained two kill rights ( in a Venture ) from failed ganks. On both occasions the ganker fired on me but failed to apply warp scram fully…and I was in any case already aligned and starting to warp as they arrived. So the myth of the ‘poor’ Venture miner in their puny unarmed ship being always blapped by fiendish Thrashers is a false one. It is entirely possible for the Venture to win.
You are making bad assumptions on me that are incorrect, and I am okay with that.
I don’t want Eve “pillars” to change. You would be streaching the truth to think that there is that much PvP combat content in high sec beyond ganking. Low, WH, Null that should not be changed at all on the PvP combat. So what you are saying is that if you change the High Sec PvP Combat all of the sudden the game and what people love in Null starts crumbling down? Come Shipwreck that can’t be your stance. And we both know populating low sec has been a issues, or even a focus for CCP for some time now. This could be the push to populate it.
How I see it playing out is that if you made mechanics of no ganking in high sec, dueling, war dec and all that remains the same. If people truly want that added level of excitement, you would move to low or to a wh, or maybe even join up in Null. As it stands today, High Sec is more dangerous than what is suppose to be the most dangerous part of space.
So stick to your guns and the only crowd of people ruining the game is your crowd of it is perfect don’t change. But the fact is, ganking is in the game and the numbers are going down so it certainly isn’t a factor that keeps people in the game. I do agree price could play a factor of no one leaving people simply can’t afford that 3,4.5 sub. A lot of the other changes in the game are fine, again small groups of people that want easy bake titans and it is gone.
JJ
If you removed ganking from High Sec out of 7,800+ systems do you think that ruins the game @Shipwreck_Jones. I don’t think it does, and you can still adjust high sec gank free to be rewarded accordingly from lower payouts or increased NPC skills whichever way you want to go. It would still create destruction as needed, but allow people to immerse themselves in the gameplay they enjoy.
I don’t see this having some rippling effect that is game-breaking and changes everything. No one but gankers ever say I play eve for the ganking content, no one says that other than gankers.
We need more people in space, which should help grow low, WH, and Null, which will create more content like @Vokan_Narkar having to fly around for hours to find something. My belief is if you allow someone to make isk in high sec, the appetite to risk something in low or a WH will only grow with time. And if someone plays their entire Eve life paying Omega and never leaves High Sec, I can’t say that is an issue, it only helps the game.
JJ
If you need some attention try to get into the conversation, your last three posts are as about meaningless to Nerf Ganking Megathread as talking about T2 ship prices going down.
For a miner being a great runner is somehow great PvP only shows even as a ganker you don’t understand PvP. But it is okay like I have said before, some want to club seals and call it content, and the vast majority don’t and hope it goes away with enough pushing.
JJ
'Course we overlook that the seals can run off to get AK-47’s and the person with their club getting wiped out by the wrath of Bob seconds after they take a swing.
I see this logic as akin to saying if we feed people candy instead of proper meals they’ll go out and exercise because they have more calories to burn. Ease leads to people wanting more ease. This is, as I see it, the root cause of what got us to the point where Ganking is the focal point of the raging debate over what’s good for the game or why players quit.
Ganking was a thing when the numbers were going up. So were wars, and any number of other highsec aggression mechanics we couldn’t opt out of. Even then, if you didn’t want to go to war, you could just stay in an NPC corporation and never have to deal with it.
All of Eve space has the same theme, at least at present. There are scary people out there trying to get you, and you’re trying not to get got. The size of the threat is just much, much smaller in Highsec.
In low, someone can teleport on your head and blast you with a Titan. Players a few months old would likely not stand a chance against this. In Highsec, though, someone wanting to gank a player is going to lose their ship and so the offensive options are highly restricted. Right now they use Destroyers, which new players have a chance to field themselves or counter, and they don’t even need to fire a shot. Just survive less than a minute.
Opting out of being shot, even at a fraction of the reward, makes a lot of sense because it drastically cuts the attention required to make your isk. Your character’s time is not important to you. Your time is important to you. Opting into facing the hardships that cause you to grow as a player is simply something people will not choose to do because hardships are harder than free and easy isk.
Eve has changed to make its young players figuratively fat and lazy. Too lazy to answer a call to arms when faced with a threat. People used to want to get back at the people who harmed them. We used to muster ad-hoc groups to bust up gate camps or thwart would be aggressors. People don’t do that so much anymore. They don’t have to. Sure, they /could/, but they /won’t/.
Eve is already too different from the game I used to know. Shipwreck is trying to keep what interesting bits that keep it from slipping into a meaningless nothing-really-at-stake grind fest, and I hope he succeeds. I just won’t hold my breath.
Apparently wars dont exist either.
Do you know the fundamentals of a high-sec gank? You are not going to have time to grab anything. And even if you did grab anything, the only real weapon you can grab is a tank, as alpha strikes of 10-20 catalysts are hard to match. The design grief is to kill you before concord, if the math doesn’t work out you don’t attempt. If you came back with a AK that can shoot back Gankers are not interested in that game play. Check out Vokan post above it sums it up fairly well.
New players under a year surviving a minute anywhere is hard. If it was that easy, there would be no ganking in the first place. So please stop writing it up as if ganking could somehow be blocked.
And now, all of a sudden, there is this EVE initiation that we should all follow and get on board. The rights of passage if you will. Come on, some people don’t care for that BS, and it doesn’t even sound realistic. There is no progressive system in EVE. It is all about time, and that is what I arguing for, if someone is paying CCP to play the game, they should have options to spend that time as they please.
Oh, your knight and shining armor? What exactly other than ganking do you think we are trying to get rid of in the game. And again I will ask what do you think fundamentally anyone other than Gankers would miss? I will go out on a limb and say no one will miss it at all. It isn’t content anyone lives for, other than the ones griefing it to others, very one-sided, very unbalanced. You can’t see past a threat beyond a gank, I mean, that is about as closed-minded as it gets. Thank the heavens, none of you are developing games.
If the end goal is to make changes to the game to bring more people into the game and actually retain them, I think ganking needs to go. And that is what it comes down to. I am hoping the Serenity changes pave the road for Tranquility. The model and thoughts I believe, are spot on for Eve 2030.
JJ
How does a ganker work.
I think its amazing how people come to a game and champion not knowing how to play as a badge of honour.