We don’t destroy each other. As you wrote yourself:
We play a game and nothing is destroyed, certainly not each other. We sit perfectly safe in our gaming chairs, in front of our computer screens, in the safety of our own homes, voluntarily playing a game within the rules and environment it provides.
Some table in a database in England has some values updated based on what we do playing a game. No human is destroyed playing EVE.
He already said going after anyone is more than they should have to endure. Seems to me at least that running is better than dying.
They want the game to be like real life with safe spaces.
What nonsense is this?
It’s not based on solid data at all.
Imagine when the American Outlaw accidentally outs his main and his main’s carebear alliance. I’ll finally have a reason to hire mercenaries and gankers alike.
You’re looking at things like a Jedi. You want to be able to maximize for maximum PvE efficiency… while playing a UPvP game. I mean, you’re free to do whatever you want, but your adopting suboptimal strategies for dealing with the challenge and adversity that this game presents, and then complaining about how that leads to frustration.
So, I don’t know, maybe trying adapting your strats to the game being played? Balancing safety with effeciency will reduce the chances of negative outcomes, and going for fit/ships with a good cost to benefit ratio will make it easier to get your money’s worth out of your ships before you lose them.
And, if you don’t want to deal with player killing, PvP avoidance, and risk management strats, maybe go play a game that doesn’t have always on PvP and a full loot death mechanic. Just saying.
Of course, there are factors which can affect this (i.e. system sec status and gank squad size), but 95% is a reasonable estimate for the percentage of ships in HS that are unprofitable to gank nowadays. It is extremely easy to put together efficient and unprofitable fits for most content in the HS. And while there is content that requires flying profitable fits, you still have the choice over whether or not to run it, you still have other risk management strats at your disposal, and there’s still the matter of risk versus reward. If you want the best rewards, you need to take the biggest risks. And, if you’re not prepared to do that, maybe you should go for something with a risk to reward ratio that you are happy with.
Oh, and on a side note, it’s even easier to squeeze more efficiency out of fits while remaining unprofitable nowadays thanks to mutaplasmids. I don’t know if people are unaware of this, or just lazy. But it’s amazing to me how many people will fit faction when they could have gotten equivalent benefit from a much cheaper abyssal.
I’ll have you know that it’s based off of 10,000 hours of player observation conducted by Hubert Dreyfus himself… and definitely not pulled out of my ass.
Also, I apparently forgot to give context for that graph earlier. I found the original in a GDC lecture on skill progression in Esports. It came from a study of skill development in DOTA2, and I updated it to reflect Eve Online. So, yeah, it should be taken with a grain of salt, but it does demonstrate that there are different types of skills, and that they are learned at different rates. This is relevant to the point I was trying to make, because JJ asserted that it was better to give newbros breathing room to learn basic mechanics, while I argued that it would actually stunt their growth, by interfering with their ability to learn other types of skills, such as PvP avoidance and risk management (on top of all the other negative consequences).
And here’s the original graph if you’re interested.
Fascinating fact time…
In March 2020 there were more ships killed ( 2558 ) by Procurers than there were Procurers killed ( 1923 ).
That’s because the proc makes a wonderful bait ship. Or it did before CCP removed a few mid slots with the EHP buff.
It’s still pretty good in that role. But not as good as it was.
Every risk / reward in the game is balanced by the developers. And ganking needs to upon the players to balance.
I wouldn’t want to restrict what players fit or haul. One way to balance would be to control what drops for a suicide gank. Or, like the Serenity Server, when you suicide gank, you don’t drop anything but pilot certificates that are like LP in the game.
I like the drop nothing idea and pilot certificates because they eliminate the destruction issue. Everything is destroyed, and nothing drops. Ganker cost goes down because you don’t need the hauler role anymore.
I mean a start to balance.
JJ
And thank you for never having any input to any thread you discuss in. @Ax_l_Thorne you will never have what it takes to get under my skin.
JJ
eww so gross why would anyone want to get under anyone’s skin cause like it would be all squishy under there unless you’re a tick then that place sounds like heaven to them…
Maybe a tick-carebear that leeches off its victims. 
Wait was uwu in tama before reset? cause I did leech off that hookbill
Post with your main. Or are your ideas really that bad?
You know we are talking about mining ships and industrial haulers correct? A freighter only has 3 low slots, you are not going going to pull transversal with any of these ships.
I don’t think setting mining and hauling ships up to fight back is the answer. If ganked properly, they probably need just blow up. Agree pilots need to work on evasive tactics, and we can go down a different thread of how to be a better miner or hauler, I think it would push us to a different conversation.
It was a good video and agree with it. Wouldn’t you say though that gankers a very low skill level, are in the FOO. They are not advancing, and because they don’t need to advance they continue to wash and repeat over and over? Eve is already set up where you get 80% of the skill in a short time, it is only that level V of a skill that takes real investment. We know CCP is changing skills, we don’t know exactly what, but removing attributes is one of them, skill queue gone, but it will be interesting to see if they simplify skills or leave them roughly where they are. I think they are fine, 80 / 20 rule and if you want to specialize you need to go that extra mile.
I don’t feel a system where new players have a chance to figure the game out, acquire some of those 80% skills and learn the basics would trap anyone. For most, you are going to want to get into T2 or larger ships as that is fun as well and part of the progression in the game. I do agree with you that skills and skill progress are very important and something that should be watched very closely by CCP, especially for new players.
No, I am not saying that, but saying things like stunt growth implies lots of players have nothing in their training cue, and from PvE to PvP is always going to be a difficult hurdle in Eve or any MMO. You are implying that this can somehow be improved, and I think it would be difficult to improve. You are implying that allowing a grace period to train and figure the game out would compound this, and I just don’t agree. Anyone bored with the game is going to leave, PvP gets boring, PvE gets boring, this responsibility is on CCP to create new ships, content, and ways to make the game enjoyable. I am looking at what makes the game not enjoyable we can possibly control.
The point of the figures shown was to show the imbalance of it. If that is how most PvP engagements were to have outcomes, there would be much less PvP in the game. Having one-sided wins sucks. It sucks for miners and haulers and it sucks for gankers. Finding a balance in there is what I am shooting for.
Being helpful, they were backward is all. An easy thing to mix up, not a big deal I still understood the numbers.
We need the new crowd to stay alive. 100% the main reason I am here doing the back and forth and hoping as a community we figure something out. Remember low, wh, null doesn’t need to change at all in this manner of topic. All that space we will still get to fight for what is ours, or lose what we can’t defend.
JJ
Still not posting with your main. If you won’t take your own ideas seriously and earnestly participate in “the community”, why do you expect everyone else to do the same?
I dont want to ban ganking, but we all agree that there is something wrong with it.
After all, its highly unacceptable that one ship should be able to destroy another without any balance.
If I come up to a guy in the street and stab him in the kidney, I dont just have my knife confiscated.
Therefore it is only normal to think that if a new player gets ganked just “for lolz” that the person doing the injustice (lets not call it a “fight”, everyone agrees a fight is between two or more fighters and a new player in a venture is not a fighter) should have a balanced punishment.
Some thing has to change about this situation before we lose too many new players.
How many new players have we lost?
Do you have any data, or just speculation?
Its readily apparent
Numbers on login screen DOWN
Numbers active on forum DOWN
Corp members active DOWN
But thats ignoring the elephant in the womb, which is tgat even if these werent FACTS, which they are, it would still stand that ganking is unbalanced.
