Sorry, why the sudden shift to personal attacks?
And which half the “Im not a ganker” half or the “I dont think it needs rebalanced” half?
Okay it was mean and I am sorry and literally came back to update it and I will. It is okay to feel the game is balanced, everyone plays a different style I suppose. And I have said it before, ganking isn’t to popular it is everywhere. So some may see ganks as rare, and others might see it as a daily way of life.
JJ
Sock puppeting and posting with alts is not a sign that someone is “thinking big” or “a bigger picture”
Quite the opposite actually. It shows they are insecure in their own argument and need to fabricate false witness to support it.
Personally, it’s a douche bag move, JJ.
There you go, as I said you told me that you do all those things and understand that is more complex than just saying GF but that is the point you chose to stick on because it supported your agenda.
Nothing else to say here.
I’m glad you finally came around to the same understanding, maybe one day you’ll also join myself and others and play the game for the fun of it.
I was hoping you would latch on to that throwaway comment. I only made it because you made it very clear “nothing gets under your skin” and you “aren’t afraid of people on the forums it’s just you don’t want your alliance associated with your posts”. It was a litmus test, if you will, of seeing how true to your words you are, since no one has any other way of measuring since you are a faceless alt.
Edit: Also, I think the quintuple-post is a new record even for you, and I got a double-post. Did you not grow up with forum etiquette of the 2000s?
I would assume someone did the math. However being gallente and armour tank it has more lower slots for damage mods, hybrid guns lack the versatility of other weapon types and trade that for having some of the highest raw damage in the game. They seem like a natural choice from the beginning.
They also look pretty neat.
I agree there is no need for a re-balance. It can continue just as it is just fine.
If we could remove the toxic elements of the community that would be great but this isn’t exclusive to ganking or even high sec and I also don’t think it’s ever going to happen.
I do think there is room for exploring new dynamics around this though because one thing is sure, high sec is just as stale as the rest of the game at this point.
Before that happens though we need to extract the discussion from the silly idea that ganking is inherently bad for the game and not just a play style that has evolved from the conditions of the game.
If there is a problem here to my view it’s an over saturation of one area of the game. CCP addressed this with industry, taking the ores and distributing them to other areas of space.
Some people will learn that lessons from ganking and it will be the nudge they need to leave behind high sec and the idea that it is somehow safe. Others will need to be encouraged away and that I think should be a focus area.
There will of course be a group of the population that prefer high sec and to mitigate their risks using the Concorde mechanics but low sec and beyond needs to seem more desirable and high sec a little less.
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I fought against alts before it was a thing, and I lost and to be honest see the importance of them now for people that like the more solo portion of the game. It is between CCP and you now, I have no skin in that fight.
But it doesn’t change anything JJ an alt, main, doesn’t matter. He is a paying Customer, actively training for Abysall Proving Grounds which I would like to play more of.
Don’t hate me for thinking big and coming up with all the ideas here, if wanted I can start tutoring secession for gankers named “Thinking Big Picture Approach to Eve Problems”.
JJ
I already play the game and love it. I am die-hard Eve and probably why I want to see PCU numbers stabilize more than most. I know it isn’t all ganking running the numbers down. Where we are at on this thread really is a pivotal point to the thought process where we need to look at the game differently for the high-sec folks. Low sec needs to be made a little sexier along with WH. Null is fine, minus the need for less big blocks and more small blocks. But all that is probably for a different thread.
I love it that you made the comments, it isn’t earth changing but gives me a cry baby moment to prove a point, if you wrote it, you thought about it. And I think you have recently seen how alliances are handling people they don’t agree with. And do care about the people around enough I don’t want to even if a small chance to cause bad press as this could be seen as.
We are all throwing ourself out here in a thread to get things twisted around, clipped to our convenient thoughts and everything else. It is the fun in it, but do want to accomplish something here one day. But fear we are only going to set the record for longest forum ever.
I have been sick thanks for asking and wondering where I was. But yes very rude to fill up the page, but dang you guys were busy I wanted to respond to more, but just too much past in the last few days.
Don’t worry more faceless post coming your way lo with a little time.
JJ
It would be very hard to do this, personality disorders are a serious thing, and I wish the gaming community policed it more. CCP has come out with some awareness of this, but only because of big block issues when there are individual issues on a daily bases in-game.
You could remove some of the activities like ganking but as @Shipwreck_Jones has pointed out before this could cause a void of a flip side of nasty people that have been bottling it up for years. I agree with this a little, the big difference is that Eve is huge, it isn’t like Elder Scrolls where you are somewhat limited to your space.
Well, you would also need to be prepared to talk about how it is bad for the game as well. There is always two sides of the coin, and that conversation, if both sides were honest, would go miles in understanding.
100% agree, but there isn’t a lot of things pushing people out. Make high sec super safe and a little boring. I think naturally, people would explore out or want a little more. Not everyone, but some. What you have today is, that High Sec is more dangerous than Null sec, and the only benefit of Null sec is you might maybe get some large fleet content. Not sure maybe more NPC stations in low, maybe other ideas but something to encourage a movement of players.
JJ
No time in the day to look up anyone here, I will take your word for it. Great job! And how it should be if you are a criminal.
JJ
You are missing my point when you say we need to be open to discussing why ganking is bad for the game.
Ganking is an emergeant play style. A symptom if you like of the state of the game and the way we are playing it. Choosing to blame ganking for the ills of the game and calling gankers inherently bad is to a degree shrugging off responsibility for the input we are putting into the game that is creating that playstyle. It’s like people who believe in an absolute good or an absolute evil, it’s a very easy way of looking at the world but it ignores that good and evil are always subjective.
People started ganking because the content was there, the content was there because the pve players weren’t offered better alternatives. The pve players (not all but some) complain at the gankers blowing up their marauders and machariels because it’s the only place they feel they can run that content when they should be looking at CCP and saying why isn’t their a better reason to form up with a small corp and run level 4s in low sec, nul sec.
One solution would be to remove the missions from high sec and force people to go into dangerous space to run them. Another solution would be to make low sec missions more desirable. LP rewards closely linked to system security and with a chance at special rat with faction drops showing up in missions below a certain threshold for instance. Dynamic mission arch’s with great rewards that take you all over space and not just high sec like the SOE epic arc.
Then we would have more emergeant game play as people prey on these mission runners and in turn the mission runners team up to run the missions as corps and salvage them for T2 salvage from the unique drops not to mention the salvage and drops from any pirates that come looking to beat you in the mission if you succeed in killing them too.
You know why CCP are pro gankers and a playstyle that so many people dislike, because it creates tension between players and keeps you at each others throats instead of asking CCP why there are elements of the game that haven’t been revamped meaningfully since their inception.
Where to start on that, an interesting point of view however.
I think you have to look at the different reasons to gank and the different ganking activity.
Mining Ganking, to attack competitors so they are less efficient (tank rather than yield) or to block them from key resources like ice.
Hauler / Freighter ganking, profit, just pure profit.
Ganking is just the application of force to steal or control resource and the primary reason why I don’t think it should ever be removed from the game.
People are not doing it because they are blocked from other PvP, they do it because they have a preference for it. Removing missions from hisec would be a major mistake.
CCP have given people reason to operate in lowsec with key ores being there and no longer in hisec, there are also level 5 missions, but would you really make an effort to run those when the area is controlled by people like Snuffed Out? I would not, way above my league thank you…
I think that CCP like ganking because it reduces the level of asset creep, the 50% loot fairy loss makes them very happy.
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I’m not proposing we remove all mission running. It was just one possibility and probably the most stupid one which is why I expanded on the next one but not that one.
People need to feel it is worthwhile to run the level 5s and 4s in other space. For instance I have run level 4s for guristas and unless you are multiboxing burners it’s not that much better than running level 4s in high sec after the opportunity cost of ships lost and shipping goods back to high sec to sell.
Also level 4 missions in general are stagnant in that the only real efficient way to run them is blitz a handful of missions, run the burners and ignore the rest.
It all needs an over hall to shake it up and while they are doing it why not spread it out.
Would people run level 5s under the nose of snuffed out? Yes of course they would, they might also make agreements with snuffed out for the rights to run them or choose to join snuffed out for the right to join them. (Other low sec entities are available)
Spread it about, make it more enticing to enter low sec and npc null. People start running missions out there then entities like the frogs might get more prevalent and competitive.
There are lots of ways it could be imagined but I think we can all agree that it is currently stale.
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Level 4’s in hisec are fine if a little staid and boring. And running missions in NPC nullsec are rather lucrative, that I can assure you. I liked level 4’s at times, but what put me off was that CCP adjusted the spawn so that missions against other faction got offered instead of the pirate ones, which I did not want to do so as I could not afford the standing loss. I found I had to sit around waiting for the standing loss penalty to end even with two characters who could accept missions. Thanks CCP for another dumb decision…
You ask that question, would people run level 4’s and 5’s under the noses of Snuffed Out, some do, but most people won’t, myself included. I don’t because I think that it is too risky against people like them. So why bother? (NB. I did try to do level 5’s several times, but it was so heavily camped that it was impossible to justify.)
It is already enticing to enter low sec and NPC nullsec, but most people don’t want to because it is too risky or more importantly just too much hassle and unfun.
Anyway thanks for the discussion, it is refreshing to discuss with someone who does not call me mad or insults me in some other way.
I’m not talking about using alts for playing the game.
I’m talking about making sock puppet alts to use on the forums.
It actually is lucrative to run these missions. If you can run them. The stupid thing is that these L5 mission-agents are rare and as static (location) as the L4s. Which means there are big groups with a legion of alts, scanners and scouts sitting on these areas getting spacerich while denying everyone else the content.
Imho L5 Missions should be special offers that you get once you have a +7 standing to the corp you are flying with, at a random basis. Like an escalation to a successful L4. Not too often, but regulary. An L5 agent remotely contacts you (like in the Epic Arcs) and sends you to a complete random lowsec system in your current region. You then have the chance to run this mission for great rewards, without the usual Bloballiances knowing about it and camping the Agent station and it’s constellation to keep L5 runners out.
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I’m not even sure what post you’re referencing. Regardless, it would appear we have a communication error.
So, here are my thoughts on the matter.
Removing UPvP would cut down on the toxicity people show each other by reducing player interaction, but:
- removing play styles would be unfair to all the players who aren’t acting badly#
- be bad for the game
- and it still wouldn’t stop toxicity.
I mean, ever heard a raid/incursion FC yelling at people, or putting people down for poor performance? And, of course, it would do nothing to address racism, sexual harassment, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia.
#And do note that the overwhelming majority of toxicity involved in ganking comes from prey, not gankers, and it’s probably only 1 or 2% of prey at that.
So, yeah, reducing player interaction by deleting play styles would probably reduce some of the toxicity that gets spewed, but it’s a solution that harms innocent players and the game, while failing to directly address the root of the problem or stop toxicity. Let me put it this way -do you think that raids/group PvE content should be removed from MMO’s because of toxic raid bosses? And if not, why should UPvP get removed from UPvP games because of a small percentage of toxic prey?
So, how do we solve the problem of toxicity? Well, EULA violators certainly need to be dealt with as swiftly as possible without compromising the investigatory process. But past that… I don’t know. I mean, lots of devs already do that, and it’s still not enough. So, yeah. I don’t have all the answers here, and this isn’t something that I’m particularly keen on doing a bunch of research on.
Anyway, there’s more I could talk about (like how player organizations should handle toxicity, or how some players will actively try to destroy toxic corps that they come across), but I need to run.
And, hopefully this thread doesn’t devolve into some culture war bullship, like the official dev thread.
I like this idea, it would make it tough for people to run them in carriers but maybe that’s not a bad thing.
I have run level 5s myself solo under the nose of locals. I think the idea that the current level 5s are watched and guarded to the extent you could never run them is as big a myth as any and also designed to protect those isk mountains.
Perhaps this is part of the problem again cutting through our own self made mythology about how isk can be earned in game to fund our pvp habits.
Is it more or less lucrative than working at WalMart?