Me too. Let’s break it down for you.
You spend a lot of time crying out for your imagined right to be a jerk on the internet. Then you got a very slight taste of your own medicine and you flagged all my posts for censorship. Then you searched through hundreds of my posts to find something to mock.
You, sir, are a hypocrite and a weasel. Now everyone can see it. Thank you for playing.
Etc etc 
The day they turn Eve into Telletubbie Farmville, complete with pixies dancing in the asteroid belts to the strain of Bucks Fizz songs and Health And Safety attendants every 1000km, will be the day CCP really do lose 90% of their players. The day Eve is no longer a HTFU universe, it will not be worth playing. Enjoy your totally empty Telletubbie universe.
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Dang, and here I was thinking Aiko was calling me J.J. Abrams.
The presence of assymetric game play does not mean that a game is not PvP. It is a competition between players. It does not matter the nature of the competition. It does not matter if players have different tools or objectives. It does not matter if the competition is lopsided.
No True Scottsman
I’m not fine with it. Because you are doing it in order to delegitimize my play style, so that it doesn’t seem like nerf-gankers are in the wrong for asking for it to be nuked. So no, this is not something that we can agree to disagree on.
Look it up yourself, and see how many of them talk about shooting other players or combat, or any specific type of competition. But, I guess because they didn’t specifically mention market PvP, that doesn’t qualify as PvP. Of course, by that same logic, neither do sports game, racing games, asymmetrical survival horror, RTS, FPS, sov warfare, faction warfare, small gang, or any ■■■■■■■ type of PvP whatsoever. Congratulations. You’re so determined to deny that ganking is a form of PvP, that you accidentally created a criteria that excludes all forms of PvP.
This right here is enough to completely discredit you.
PvP avoidance is counter play, is integral to what you consider to be “real PvP,” and is PvP in and of itself.
“Real PvP’ers” use PvP avoidance tactics all the damn time, in order to prevent feeding and to prevent the enemy from dictating the terms of engagement. PvP between players starts before the first offensive module is activated, and can even include engagements where no offensive modules were used.
Are you using bing or something? Because unless you got some extremely different search results from me, you are a liar who is arguing in bad faith.
First 5 definitions taken from a Start Page search from about a week ago
Yes, this one actually used the term “fighting,” but it still contrasted PvP to PvE, which implies that the author probably just didn’t chose his words very carefully… probably because he didn’t expect nerds to be picking over definitions try determine whether or not ganking was, in fact, PvP.
PvP is a competitive interaction between players, and is contrasted to PvE, where the content and challenge comes from conflict against the environment. It is an either or type of thing. Either the content, challenge, and conflict comes from other players, or it comes from the environment. No where do any of these definitions qualify PvP as requiring first person shooter elements, fighting game elements, or anything else of that nature. No where do any of these definitions allude to some third type of game play that involves “seal clubbing” hapless twats.
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tbh it kind of looks like the argument falls between how each defines pvp. in the game industry, pvp means a form of combat and is typically 2 sides or more. the broader definition is also correct, because anything that a player competes against another player is pvp.
Why are we still legitimizing a troll anonymous alt by replying to him?
Just ignore JJ and let his armchair psychological warfare harmlessly slide off the community. He hasn’t presented a new idea in over 1,500 posts and gave up any pretense of staying on focused, “polite”, and on-topic long ago by slipping into a series of personal attacks at one point.
I invited the guy long ago to post with his main so we know he’s authentic and genuine and he’s consistently declined, which still screams giant red flag.
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PvP literally means player versus player. Nothing about that says it has to be fair, balanced, consented, expected, or anything else. Any interaction that involves one player ‘versus’ another is, by definition, PvP.
There is no such thing as ‘real’ PvP. It is some ’ no true Scotsman’ semantic gobbledegook that anti-PvP people have invented and which means precisely nothing as all PvP is by definition ‘real’ PvP.
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Didn’t I just agree to that?
I’m not anti-pvp and I consider there to be real pvp and there to be seal clubbing. I suppose it’s just a matter of whether you consider running and hiding to be a counter to ganking. Technically it is, but is it really? I don’t know how the term started, but I know in my many years of playing wow, ganking meant high levels going out to kill low level players that stood no chance. On PVE servers, they’d just kill low level quest givers in starting zones.
I do have probably an over realized sense of honor regarding combat which doesn’t seem to exist for others.
I took the advice I was given and have come out a better player for it. The other day when we were trying to kill some slippery enemies, I learned about overheating individual modules to gain extra speed and such. Now I use that technique a lot. Every day I learn new things regarding this game and how pvp is handled, and I like the complexity yet also simplicity. So many options, so many counters.
Because of my new experiences with this stuff, I fully recanted my opinions on gankers and even thanked the person that ganked me, as well as the people that had to beat the information into my head repeatedly for me to understand it.
Oh, it’s worse than that Io, he’s now making sock puppets in an attempt to validate and bolster his position. And he actually said he was fine with doing that because “the game has alts.”
You are right. At this point it’s best to ignore him. But he’ll just make another forum alt and start all over…
He does not argue in good faith. In fact his world view is so narrow that only those people that agree with him are “innovative and think big” and everyone else is “too small minded” to grasp the larger and ideal picture he has planned for us.
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In the Left 4 Dead franchise teams play both sides, first Team 1 are the survivors and Team 2 are the zombies then the teams are reversed and the team with the best score wins.
Maybe CCP could implement this and after someone gets ganked the gankers are placed in the same belt in mining ships and the ganked one and its fleet are placed at a random location in system flying catalysts.
If they score higher than the original gankers they should have their ships reimbursed with a bonus of their ship value pay out in ISK, all deducted from the gankers’ alliance treasury. (They need at least 100 billion ISK in the treasury to can set safeties to red.)
As the carebears always claim ganking is easy this would work in their favour. Right?
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Er…no…as you then contradict that ‘agreement’…
So you are once again using ‘real PvP’…despite having supposedly already agreed that PvP simply means ‘player versus player’
I’ve mined on and off for almost a year and never been ganked doing so. In all that time I can count the number of times I have ‘run and hid’ on the fingers of one hand. I’m not sitting there cowering in the asteroid belts. Heck…I’ve even mined in Uedama in a ship called ‘Gank This !’
Not only have I never been ganked while mining…I’ve even scored 2 kill rights against failed attempts to gank me. So…
Miner 2 Gankers 0
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How so? Both statements are true. In the video gaming industry, pvp means combat. Also true is that player versus player means any form of competition between players. I think some of the argument comes down to which statement you hold to be more true, even though they are both true.
For the same reason physical sports have terms like unsportsmanlike conduct.
I mined for almost a month and didn’t get ganked, but then I did because I ran my mouth on these forums about not being ganked. Having learned the actual mechanics for pre-align I can fully see why you have not been ganked. From what I can tell, the majority of new players never come to these forums to find information like that. I still can’t think of a single youtube video that explained it. It certainly wasnt explained in rookie help chat. There is a disconnect between what you know with your years of experience and what a new player is able to learn through places like rookie help chat.
For example, after I learned about the higgs anchor and how pre-align actually works I told my corp members about it and some of them that had been playing for more than 6 months had no clue either.
Which round of the ganking isn’t PvP is this? This is why I was flagging his posts before because he does nothing but spamming this forum. Over and over with same crap unwilling to accept counterarguments without actually countering them with his owns. This guy is a troll.
@Jesse_W_James go play EVE Echoes, it has everything you want. Stop trolling and spamming here.
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Maybe you should have devoted more effort into applying what you learned in the Art of War to your game play, instead of trying to figure out how to use it to make weak burns in forum PvP.
The main reason I haven’t been ganked is that I mine in systems where gankers seldom visit. Low population systems, less than half a dozen people, where one can see in an instant if a load of gankers suddenly show up. I’m not gonna say here what systems there are…but there are a LOT of them ! The second major reason is that I deliberately chose asteroid belts close to a station and also as far away from stargates as possible. That means I could be at the station long before any gankers arrive.
The reason people get ganked is that they mine in regular ganker haunts like Isanamo. Only a total fool mines there !
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Does that actually matter though? From what I understand about it, once you are in warp you’re free and clear. I suppose in nullsec there are those bubbles to worry about that could hinder docking or tethering but I don’t know of any way in highsec to stop you from gaining tether or docking?
It very much matters. If my escape station is only 0.1 AU away and the nearest stargate is 50 AU away…I can be at that station and docked before gankers show up anywhere near. One has to bear in mind that gankers may be targeting the stations as well as the belts. A good ganker team will have scouted and will know that you deliver to that station.
I regularly use d-scan to see if people are hanging about near any nearby stations. You can narrow the angular range of d-scan to do that.
Also, I presume you are familiar with the ‘insta-dock’ method at stations.
It was explained about 3000 posts ago but I didn’t see a real purpose to it until I went to nullsec. I hadn’t experienced a situation where I warped out of range of the station before. Then I did, and now I have a bookmarks section for every station I use.