At least you would not have to tank your bumping ship anymore and could optimize for pure bump
But I bet 10 min after that we would have threads about “risk free bumping”
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What really got buried was how quickly you dropped the subject when it was pointed out that the AIR Labs starter system at Bourynes is just two jumps from the primary agent site at Trossere…with just a single 0.9 ‘unprotected’ system at Vittenyn for noobs to have to go through to get there.
OMG…the horror ! Noobs have to run the gauntlet of ONE 0.9 system to get to the safety of Trossere ! The Telletubbies would be shocked.
Not a single person has actually been ganked in Vittenyn for 3 days. The station at Vittenyn used to be my main base as a noob…in fact I still have almost half of my 200 or so ships there. I’d regularly mine next door in Mirilene and transport ore to Vittenyn and barely ever saw a ganker.
Of course people do occasionally get ganked there, but judging by the sheer number of noobs in Trossere…most make it through !
But as ever, you are simply not interested in actual facts…even from someone who lived in one of those ‘in between starter and agent system’ places for months and who regularly returns there.
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I would love to see an example of an “entirely ungankable ship”. I think the closest is probably an Astero, but you still have to know how to fit it for a sub 2 align and have appropriate dock and undock BMs. At which point it isn’t the ship, it’s the ship capabilities maximized by a player with good game knowledge. No ships are ungankable.
Edit: I thought about it some more, and even the Astero has issues. You can absolutely grab sub 2 ships. Maybe a sub 1 Hecate? Still need the BMs of course, and I’m not sure it has enough EHP for smartbombs.
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But there’s the real irony. When I was ganked a few weeks into the game, leaving the game was the last thing on my mind. I wanted a Khan type revenge…long since forgotten about but that was the actual state of mind rather than rage quitting. I was actually far more in a rage quitting mood recently ( a year into the game ) when I lost 3 ships in one day in a POS siege, that spoiled an unbroken chain of kills. In fact I would argue ( especially from what I have seen on the forums ) that most of the rage quitters are not one week old noobs.
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Because it’s irrelevant. Like every single discussion you are involved in it’s just you saying “Here is one example, therefore everything should be based on this one example”. Go do the career missions for every single faction and count how many non-protected systems you go through for each, just in the course of learning basic game concepts.
Oh look, another one single example. I guess if noone has been ganked in Vittenyn that can automatically be extrapolated out to the entire universe then.
That’s laughable coming from you. You literally ignore all the facts then hunt down and cherry pick single isolated examples you think support your views then pretend that’s all the data.
There are loads. Though sure, you have to actually fly them. Any ship can be ganked if it’s just left floating in space, but we’re talking about ships being used to transport large values of small goods, like BPO sets and such. There are plenty of ships that can have a beefy tank so they can’t be alphad off the grid and are fast enough to not get bumped or pinned down.
Just to add context here, this is based on the claim that if T1 frigates were ungankable, this would be some massive advantage to veterans who would suddenly start autopiloting frigates around with hundreds of billions in cargo. The reality is that it would be no advantage since anyone wanting to move frigate sized loads can already do so in perfect safety.
Another single anecdote being used to support an argument.
With CCPs claimed numbers on how many people join there would need to be tens of thousands of people posting qutting threads regularly for there to be any data you could use from that. Even for the active playerbase the forum is niche, and I doubt most new players who decide to quit bother to hop onto the forum to post about it.
What about bumping?
No it damned well isn’t. How can having actually lived in precisely the system you were talking about for several months and directly experienced a system you have probably only ever spent 5 minutes in be irrelevant ? The way you just casually dismiss people’s direct experience of things has reached the point where its high time I simply joined the ever growing list of people who have you blocked.
@ISD_Heimdallr please can we get this merged with the anti/nerf ganking mega thread because it has turned into yet another anti/nerf ganking thread.
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It can be annoying to new players who don’t know how to deal with it, but it’s limited by the warp timer and doesn’t actual result in negative progress for a new player, just stalled progress, so I think it’s fine.
Of course it is, because it’s an anecdote. That would be like me finding a single gank right outside a starter system then declaring that all starter systems are blockaded by gankers.
Good. At no point have you contributed anything rational or objective to any discussion we’ve been in, just cherry-picked anecdotes, so if you stop responding to me I take that as overwhelmingly positive news. I genuinely want you to be able to understand why single anecdotes aren’t useful so we can have healthier discussions but I don’t think we’ll ever get there.
Eh fair enough.
It would be a hassle to log in an alt every 3 minutes.
Name one. With fitting. Please.
Yeah I’m not playing the “let’s theorise about a fitting” game where you invent unrealistic scenarious and say things like “well if I have 2000 instalock thrashers on a gate specifically waiting then the math says it can be ganked!”.
Again, I explained the context so I’m not really looking to have a discussion on the word “ungankable” I’m just pointing out that no veteran player is suddenly going to start hauling BPOs in a T1 frigate if they are made immune to ganks, and if they did they’d have no additional advatage to the current situation by doing so.
You lost me on that one.
Yeah, but see there aren’t. Just to avoid the perfect combination of being tackled with an insta-locker with right server ticks you are looking at fits in the high 9 digits. And that’s just to beat the 1 sec align. Being able to replace that and all the training and actual pilot skills that make it flyable with an Atron is a pretty big change. I’m not saying maybe it’s not worth it in the big scheme of things if CCP decides that’s the solution, but it absolutely would be gamed by veterans.
Smells like an excuse to me. Nobody needs 2000 Instalock Thrashers, but Gankers have proven to be able to bring up to 70 Chars in Fleet if they want to bring a specific target down. I witnessed such ganks on several occasions.
I do not doubt that there are fits out there which make it almost impossible to gank them, especially if they are flown with attention and caution.
But that is miles away from just putting the stuff into an invulnerable frig and just send it afk to wherever. These scenarios are so much different, they are not even remotely comparable.
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But this is in the context of Malcanis law, and I believe that veterans would gain nothing really from this because fitting a more expensive ship is trivial to them. It may benefit new players who can’t afford to fit or skill up to fly those more expensive ships though.
Even then though when the guy wouldn’t drop it I said I’d also be fine with CCP making people suspect upon undocking a T1 frigate if they had more than a billion in cargo. It wasn’t a serious criticism though it was just a ganker flailing about to find any reason to automatically dismiss any suggestions that would reduce new player ganking.
vOv
Again though, look at the actual context. A veteran can already transport billions in BPOs right now. They don’t gain the ability to do so if they can do it in a T1 frig, they just gain the ability to potentially lose BPOs to a random gate rat while autopiloting. So I do not accept that the potential gains for a veteran are even remotely close to the potential gains for new players.
Dont you mean the potential gains for CCP?
The new player retains 500,000 worth of ship and “worthless” cargo, but I thought the point was player retention, i.e. CCP gets money and folk in the game for numbers and Hilmar gets richer?
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Sure. Well it’s a gain for both, right? The new player has a reduced chance of being set back in early progress which in turn makes them more likely to stick around which is then a gain for CCP. Hopefully we then all gain by having a more active game as those players stick around long enough to find things they enjoy.
Its debateable if staying in game is a gain for the player, but certainly if you like Hilmar you should back this idea.
Though I think he’d monetise this idea
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TBH I’m surprised they haven’t offered sales of those “truce” items there are in other games, where you activate them and can’t be attacked for 7 days. If they sold those for PLEX the multibox miners would go nuts on them.
I am, it does not change my opinion.
He cannot do it AFK in 100% safety. He needs to manually fly all the way and even if he takes all the right preparations and has a really good fit, there is room for error and bad luck and this is the moment when his 20B BPO collection ends on the killboard.
Also the main key to success in such a run is not the fit, its the pilot. Even a noob can transport small high value stuff from A to B currently almost as safe as a veteran can, if he just uses personal skill and a moderately nice fit.