Now you can’t say I’ve never done anything for you.
1 Like
Every time anyone raises this issue here, my response is that if they survived being a noob…why wouldn’t anyone else ?
There is a certain irony to people who clearly got past noobness, and thus proved it can be done, complaining in large numbers that things are too hard for noobs ! If you and I can manage it…why can’t anyone else ?
1 Like
Truth to be told: Not everyone is like you or Quake or me. Some people simply lack the necessary character traits to live in and find enjoyment in the kind of environment that EVE offers. It arguably requires quite a bit of effort and willpower not to get demoralized by a loss. Frankly, losses fester on my mind for a long time and I find the logistics of replacing a lost thing utterly frustrating.
However, the question is: What should change: The environment that was designed in a certain way to purport certain emotions and experience to accommodate players that do not want these emotions or experiences? Or the players towards the environment by accepting the specifically designed nature of the environment and whether they can really live and have fun in something that goes against what they want?
The environment has been changed a lot already to accommodate incompatible players to an extent. I think it’s time that the players change to accustom themselves to the environment again.
2 Likes
Consider also the psychology of making life easier for noobs. Seemingly altruistic, but there’s a darker element that people may not even be aware of. The easier life is progressively made for noobs, the more the person ‘supporting’ the moves can boost their ego by feeling that they survived when things were harder. Make life sufficiently easy for noobs and you can ‘win’ Eve because it will never be that hard again. Sometimes I do wonder if this sort of attempt of people to close the gate behind them is the real cause…and the shining white nooby protector knight is all an illusion. Is all the ‘protect noobs’ really just gatekeeping.
Again, CCP at the most recent fanfest stated there was a link between ganking and new player churn. If you have evidence that proves them wrong by all means present it.
How can you possibly know this? If they left because of a cheap loss, how can you possibly know how they would react had then not had that loss but had a loss much later?
The majority of MMOs soften new player losses specifically because players do think like that. Negative progress is far worse early on than it is later.
But I came into the game during a time when ganking was pretty much non-existent for new players. I suffered no early losses that I didn’t directly instigate. If I started now and spent a couple of week grinding then lost everything then I’d chuck this game in the trash where it belongs, so by your logic if I lose anything now I should still ragequit. But I don’t. Why? Because I’m in a position to recover from significant losses now.
So I should ignore CCP stating what they are seeing in their data and believe some random pleb on the forum? What credentials can you offer that makes your word more worthwhile than CCPs word plus my own first hand experiences with new players?
It had fewer safeties but far fewer risks too. Early in my days I always used to see fleets of AFK iterons mining all day every day, no ganks because they weren’t worth it. Now though hunting newbies is pretty much a sport and you look at the systems between career hubs and you see kills pretty much every day where gankers are just hanging out there waiting for newbies to pass back and forth. Go look at systems between the Caldari career agents like Isanamo for example.
They do but anyone that’s played it knows that’s false. Once you get established it’s basically hello kitty in space. There aren’t many MMOs where it’s so insanely easy to be successful at whatever you choose to do. I think that’s what appeals to some people, this game requires very little actual skill, it just requires you to know about some mechanics.
This is part of the above You’re not some elite ubergamer because you play EVE. You happened to not have too hard a time getting into the game and you enjoy playing it, that’s all. You’re not superior to someone who gets ganked early on and decides they can’t be bothered to repeat their progress.
Literally the opposite is true. The game was vastly more easy for newbies when I joined.
It is already happening btw. Not on that big scale fortunately and gankers do sometimes kill such Orcas even in 1.0, but it takes many resources and they are then even accused to breaking rules of no ganking in starter/career systems.
I am sure that this being already the case will be used as an argument why we should definitely do this nonsense that OP is promoting, but you are right, remove safety in 1.0 and these systems will be out of ore in hour after downtime…
1 Like
So why would that not be the case now? It takes significant firepower to bring down things like orcas in a 1.0 so why are they not already stipped every single day?
And if they were stripped every day, why should anyone care? The total amount of ore is tiny and would decrease because belts take multiple respawns to recover from being mined out. If you care about people mining loads you should be concerned with ice systems, particularly those with multiple spawns.
They actually are. But it takes a while as the amount of veterans mining in 1.0/0.9 in Orcas or with multiboxing fleet is not that high right now. Partially also because of the gankers, because many of those who did that in past lost their Orca or Mackinaw in these systems anyway so they realized that not even that makes them perfectly safe and stopped doing that. Second reason is that there is no plagioclase and the belts are quite on low volume compared to lower security status systems.
These players are denying the resources to those they “belong” to - new players who are supposed to mine for missions in these systems or who lives there as they are protected there, but not even 1jump outside of that system.
Anyone mining with a multiboxing fleet of barges/exhumers or Orcas is griefing new players.
1 Like
But why would it not be high now if it would suddenly shoot up if they were perfectly safe? The chance of being ganked in a 1.0 is shockingly slim if you haven;t annoyed a ganker and you’re not bling fit because the cost to punch through that much tank is far higher than other targets.
And this right here is the main thing. Even if it were perfectly safe the gains are too low.
New players tend to get spawned belts for any of the guided mining. I’m sure if CCP felt it was an issue though they could enforce a rule that you can’t mine in starter systems, just like they enforce a rule than you can’t gank newbies there.
Like, anyone anywhere multibox mining is griefing? The russain bot miner mining ice in Niballe for several years is griefing new players? Leave it out, he’s the reason I get cheap fuel.
CCP stated that ganking helps player retention in the previous fanfest. Now they say it harms player retention. See what I mean with that their research is worthless?
A couple of weeks protection and then you still lose everything because your protection ended puts you in the same spot.
And it’s still not my logic that you should quit. People who can deal with this kind of environment won’t quit because of a loss, early or later. But if you keep insisting that you are one of these people after all, despite having made it in EVE for years, I start to think that you are just a fluke.
EVE does the same in newbie starter systems and career agent systems. That’s akin to the starter areas in other games. Other than that, EVE is purported as lawless, dystopian space. If people get ganked too often in systems adjacent to starter systems (I checked Ekura next door to Amsen and say a number of dead Ventures thanks to Safety., but I also see days without any kills or only NPC kills.), CCP should do a better job at explaining what happens and how to pay more attention.
One could argue that CCP could add Safety. as red contact by default for newbies and explain to them why this is the case and what they need to do when they see a red in local. Instead of locking people into green safety (by the way, it would not work in Josameto anyway if the 1.0 Green were a thing), CCP should introduce people to the existing tools to stay alive and navigate the treacherous environment.
I don’t claim to be superior. I state solely that these people won’t make it in EVE anyway. If they get demoralized by a cheap loss early on, they will always get demoralized and frustrated by losses. It doesn’t matter if they had a day or “a few weeks” to build up a buffer. If they cannot deal with losses early on, they don’t learn the most valuable lessons to survive in EVE.
4 Likes
Lmao. You even managed to make 5 quotes from short post like that.
When I saw there is a new thread and it already has 100 replies within hours of creation I knew it is you again.
You are spamming these forums really hard lately. I am not engaging in this ■■■■. You can have your last word if you need it. I am blocking you from now on because these nonsense that you are spouting lately are damaging my health.
Also, since when is Niballe 1.0 ? LOL just what the hell are you smoking?
1 Like
Sure, but then based on what Rise stated about how he gathered that data it was flawed from the getgo. That doesn’t mean their data is inherently wrong and you’ve offered no reason for me to accept your views over theirs, particularly since your views run counter to MMO research in general too.
If you say so.
Which you immediately have to leave even just following the career agents, hence gankers hanging out in systems newbies are directed through as part of career agent missions.
I mean, you kinda do. When you say stuff like “Not everyone is like you or Quake or me. Some people simply lack the necessary character traits…” that’s you claiming superiority.
How fickle your affections are. Just the other day you were cheering on my responses talking about P2W. Then it seems by disagreeing with your ganker buddies I’m now the enemy.
I didn’t say it is, but when you’re talking about miners raking in huge amounts of resource, it’s those types of miners you should be more concerned about, but conveniently you never are. My suspicion is that most of the major multibox miners in highsec are operated by gankers.
I blocked that guy along time ago, just to make the threads readable
Well I think he won anyway. I completely lost my will to even read these threads that swollen 200+ replies over night… Might have been his goal from the very beginning.
AG propaganda is using every petty tricks they can.
According to CCP, the griefing issue is where there is no obvious payoff to the ganker and the new player with no cargo was the specific example used. If a new player is carrying something of value, then there would clearly be a potential payoff for the ganker.
None of us might agree with that, but it is what they outlined at Fanfest.
1 Like
It’s kinda going to World of Warcraft’s starter area and ganking the level 1 players trying to kill a boar.
Brainstorm:
- accidents may happen, there is not time to read the bio when you are landing on a target
- I have more than enough 1 day old characters buying orcas, marauders, huge amount of materials from me
So… how and where do we draw the line? How CCP will pull this off?
We would need to draw the line as anywhere CCP sets it. It’s always been that way. Whether we agree or not on where the line is, is another thing and the subject of endless discussion in the forum.
I don’t personally think CCP can pull it off. I don’t think they have sufficiently skilled game designers any longer, to get it right. I hope I’m wrong.
Sure
1 Like
From zkill data, feel free to independently verify, their API is available.
Scraped all ganks fom Zkill for 2022, cross referenced character ages and time of gank from evewho.
Again, feel free to go run the data yourself and verify.
It’s just this year.
1 Like