Pilot interaction within New Eden should never be referred as being of extremely poor quality even if one Pilot stands out the most from all of the rest.
If this was true in times gone by, then nothing has changed - except that CCP may now be permitting a different flavour of player to define the game.
Or does it only matter if they are swayed by individuals of whom you disapprove?
If that is the case, then you are no different from we gankers, who decry the incipient decline of our beloved playstyle, blaming at least some of it on CCP’s lending an ear to the PvP-shy carebears.
I do not blame CCP. It is a commercial entity, which will always act primarily in its own interests.
Your accusations regarding their past actions do look like partiality. If responding to the concerns of players is what CCP does, then applaud it!
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
1 Like
I don’t think anything has changed, I don’t even think which players are driving that narrative have changed a whole lot. The only difference is that CCP are starting to face the grim reality of that approach.
Except that objectively there isn’t a decline in ganking. Ganking is far more pervasive now than at any almost any time in the past and considering it’s mostly done by a small potion of the playerbase there’s clearly a balancing issue there.
And let’s be clear, my original view on ganking is that it should be balanced, have more risks (as ganking mostly just has cost, rather than risk, and a relatively low cost at that) and that it should be steered away from new players and more towards juicy targets. My stance has only hardened to “get rid of ganking” because without fail every single attempt to have a reasonable discussion on it with gankers has resulted in an onslaught of spam posting and personal attacks.
Will you say that if they follow their current view that ganking harms retention and they put in changes designed to reduce and limit the scope of ganking?
You deny presenting a different view every day of the week…and yet its only yesterday that you admitted you were not sure of this.
And your actual evidence for this is ?
Nope. Just you understand changes.
At no point have suggested that I’m not sure that CCP stated it harms retention. I said I don’t personally have access to enough data to categorically say whether it does, but that I defer to CCP as they have stated it does affect retention. Again, the quote you are now picking out says the same thing. It’s not a change in my stance because my stance has not changed at all.
No…that’s just pathetic as you are not ‘deferring’, you are basically using ‘CCP’ as a shield behind which you can pretend they have stated your own views…when in fact they have not stated the bulk of what you say.
It has to be some of the most dishonest tactics I’ve seen on these forums.
Irony meter at maximum.
That’s right…once again deflect from the fact that you made a claim, yet have zero evidence to support it and just fall back on a pathetic ‘deferring to CCP’ who have said absolutely nothing about whether ‘ganking is more pervasive’.
Just more utterly dishonest arguing.
Agree
Go to EveOnline.com and tell me where it says PvP only game? Solved that one fairly easy, for a statement no one could rebute.
Aww don’t spoil the laughs with pity.
I mean I literally think that is how you feel. Which is fine, I mean the relationships we make in the game is what keeps most of us coming back.
I do because it is statically correct. I know it isn’t 100%, but how do you say one is good and the other isn’t. You don’t, that is what stats are for. Greifer group people is a narccistc trait, look it up. So it can be said it is a mental thing, and how real life is, as they treat people in real life the same.
Some can be, again just the stats and most are cry babies, have a hard time to change, adapting, and losing.
But move out to low, wh, and null there are some really great PvPers and they are much less toxic, although I will have to say unfortunately it does exist even out there. Poking fun and a little harassment is always fun, but people need to know when to cut it off.
Interesting, I feel me being honest with you touched some buttons. And this is how the conversation typically goes. It is okay though I am here for you, lets keep a open line of communication going until you are feeling better about the situation.
Yes again, like many others including myself this is the fall back. But it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. I think you are smart enough to know our game needs help. I don’t understand why you would deny it that? Do you think something else should take place? If yes lets discuss.
I think you are confusing you comments, but what you are saying here could be true. But we were talking about oversupply in highsec.
Hope you got the new announcement looks good, looking forward to some new ships.
You almost had me thinking we are agreeing. I think it is still close enough, I can say I agree with this.
It is true, Null is even worse, there isn’t enough people to fill the systems. So forcing PvP to be in those areas force people to leave out of High. I think a lot of it would happen naturally.
I don’t think it murders the game, well I know it doesn’t, we can check MER reports on this. I think a little more balance to high and the other regions and we will be fine here. We just need more people, or maybe not more people but a stable body and not a declining one.
No one likes my ideas, so at least I have them, but can’t seem to get any of them to be acceptable even though I like them, I guess that makes it my idea.
We all post long enough in there, we talk in circles. No need to get out of it just move on with the conversation.
JJ
1 Like
Let’s be clear, Ganking needs to move to Low sec. There are a few scenarios where it would be cool in high, but no one on the ganking side find it cool, and thus the boot it is.
I have never quoted CCP, you and your friends do all the time. Not me, and yes you do exactly what you state, stretch it out as far as humanly possible.
JJ
Oh…the last think you anti ganking crowd ever seem to genuinely want is to be clear. I wish you would be…then there’d be less dishonest posting.
For what genuine bona fide reason ? ‘Needs’ ? Says who ? Where is this ‘need’ coming from ? What is you actual evidence to support this ‘need’ ?
Oh yes…and here’s another CCP quote…‘ganking is safe’. ( from the 2022 fanfest )
You haven’t actually spent 2 months in the Why Was I Ganked chat, as I have, where you will clearly see that most of the extreme toxicity is not from the gankers but from the ganked. This is something I have directly seen myself…and is indisputable.
You get that’s by design, right? Most gankers deliberately try to wind up their targets because it’s that real player outrage that they are trying to generate. It’s not just a game to them it’s a way to attack the people the other side of the screen.
So sure, I’m not surprised that a group of people who go out of their way to generate outrage and anger succeed in making their victims angry some of the time. Just because you’ve decided to join the sick freaks doesn’t mean their behaviour is acceptable.
1 Like
I should have indicated that by ‘decline’ I do not mean incidence. Perhaps there is more ganking taking place, or perhaps it is relatively stable; I just don’t know.
I meant a decline in the popularity of the activity, in the number of full-time gankers (as opposed to alts) - to which I believe you referred, and in the positive attention given to the playstyle by the Game’s designers.
Yes. I will assert that it’s the right of any company to make changes to its product, based upon criteria of its own devising. I may try to influence that process, but no more than that.
I’ve always made it clear that I do not love EVE Online. It is a game which I have enjoyed playing for just under a decade, but one which I would certainly set aside if it no longer interested me.
I cannot be in thrall to a confection.
Although Cadbury’s Dairy Milk Chocolate comes pretty close…
Sure I accept that. It’s more of a niche interest than ever before.
But would you continue to say you don’t blame them?
I think a lot will come down to how well the new dawn server does in China. If that shows large gains then I expect serious changes to TQ or a second server spinning up alongside it.
Yeah I agree, though I’m hoping to be here for the end whenever that comes. I’d rather that date be pushed further back though and I entirely accept that will mean changes that appeal to newer audiences and appeal les too veterans. I think that inevitably require CCP to make the game easier to start and easier to get built up early on and ganking directly opposes that.
It’s not by design.
Some players just can’t handle adversity in a universe built on exactly that. I often go out hunting for fights in low, simply with the goal to have fun. I have been called “pet”, “daddy”, “asshole”, “rooky[sic]”, “bad”, “brain damaged”, “sick in the head”, and more from people I didn’t even fight. They warped off before I could engage and they avoid PVP.
Nothing provoked that response from them, they just decided to let their true nature take initiative. I just jump to next gate and continue to say nothing.
If that’s what I see in low sec – where there’s an expectation of increased adversity – I find the utterly gross things posted by gankees in Aiko’s blog wholly believable and realistic, given that there are some people that live in High Sec that have mis-managed their expectations to believe there should be no adversity.
1 Like
I’ve learned, Lucas, that apportioning blame is one way in which the Self seeks to evade its own responsibilities. It’s not that the blaming is unjustified; rather, that it frequently encourages the one blaming to ignore opportunities for self-improvement.
e.g., It is correct to blame the ganker for blowing up your fail-fit Retriever; but in doing so you may miss a golden learning-opportunity for the potential warding-off of future disappointments.
Ahem.
Indeed, that’s really the point of the blog.
It’s not about griefing miners, but showing that the “innocent” miners are anything but. They are the toxic element in this community. It’s the people who oppose PvP who are making IRL death threats and racist/sexist statements.
These people are not upset because a ‘cyberbully’ provoked them. They are upset because they are trying to earn isk/hr in a video game, and when another player (playing the game as intended) interferes with that, these “carebears” become abusive.
3 Likes
It is though, and you know this. All the mails and the invites to channels they aren’t to actually attempt to teach people anything. All the “calm down miner” repetition after people say pretty much anything is an example of this too and that ones pretty much straight out of the goon handbook, it’s all built on techniques designed to provoke an angry response.
This is true, but it doesn’t change the fact that gankers are deliberately trying to seek out those people and provoke responses from them so they can share them around and have a laugh.
I’m sure some of it is, but then when you take thousands of people, gank them then goad them into responding angrily there’s absolutely no surprise that some fall for the bait.