One red one black
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I am blown away that this post garnered this much attention. I would take this opportunity to help educate both players and the developers of Eve on colorblindness.
Below is a link to the content of several posts I have made explaining the gist of how colorblindness works (As I am new to these new Eve forums I am only able to post 2 links, please see the linked reddit post I made for all the relevant links, they will aid understanding better):
Here are posts I made explaining the gist of deficient color vision for those that donāt understand it:
If red has no green in it, why can a deuteranope not see red as red?
"The red and green cones have sensitivity that is closer together and that overlaps more than with blue cones. This is also why we see yellow well; red and green firing together.
Here is a graphic and information on that.(Missing link, see linked post)
So, to answer your question. What happens is that there is a huge swathe of light that we do see where both red and green are firing but we are unable to discern if the red or green cone is firing more than the other.
As well, there is psychology to this.
Magenta (purple) is the absence of green. Magenta does not have a wavelength(Missing link, see linked post) and doesnāt actually exist outside of our mixing red and blue.
If you take white light and remove green, you get magenta.
Now, deuteranopes cannot see green well, so a lot of our vision is based on synthesizing color just as everyone does with purple.
But what do you do if you never could see green anyway? Green was already gone, so when you take it away it doesnāt really change much. So now we are relying on the rods in our eyes to tell us the shades and tints of colors. The problem is that the rods are not sensitive to red light and this color vision is shifted to the blue side of the spectrum.
We also use associations and color constancy(Missing link, see linked post) to determine what color something is. We establish common tints and shades and associate them with certain colors and scenarios and use color constancy to tell us what color something is. E.G. bananas are yellow, apples are red, etc.
We also have false references and association because, as shown in the graphic above, there is a large overlap of visible light where both red and green are visible, but because we do not see the green as well we see more red. This means that something may be closer to green but we see more red and make a false association.
This also means that when there is no reference, nothing to compare the color to or just a situation we have not encountered often enough to develop an association, we have to think about what color we are seeing and thus we may not be able to tell that what we are seeing is red.
As well, when the lighting conditions change, because our rods are being used to assist with this reference and association, our eyes are also sensing the change in light and relying on the rods more to determine color in low light settings and less in high light settings; so our original reference is now useless and we are left scratching our heads, or seeing the green or blue in the color or using a totally different reference or association because the lighting has fooled us into thinking it is another color because it was close to another rod based reference/ association. EDIT: Essentially, we are always under the Purkinje effect(Missing link, see linked post) to varying degrees.
Think of it like this. Normal people have a ruler (color vision) that has inches and millimeters etched onto it. With this they can measure and see colors easily, always correct and precise.
Colorblind people have a ruler (color vision) with no markings.
EDIT: Apologies; deuteranope is no cones and deuteranomaly is fewer or less sensitive cones.
My apologies for conflating the two when reading the OPās title.
However, the explanation is much the same, even for dichromats(Missing link, see linked post)."
Iām still confused. I thought deuteranopes have no green cones, so those are out of the picture and canāt fire. But they have red cones, which should fire fine and show red as normal, no?
"Deuteranomaly does not have zero green cones, just fewer than normal and or less sensitive green cones.
We typically see red well.
The problem is that because we do not see green well and because there is so much overlap in the red and green sensitivity to the same light wavelengths that we can easily get confused.
This is compounded by the fact that we fall back on our rods to try to see green and or for references and associations. Rods do not see red light, they see green and blue. This means that if we are looking at something that may or may not be red, when we fall back it becomes green or blue.
Our brain goes like this:
Brain: "Coney what color is this?
Coney: āHmm, there is no blue light, maybe some green light and maybe some red light, letās get a hold of Rod and see what he thinks.ā
Brain: āRod, what color is this, bro?ā
Rod, āThat is dark green, yo!ā
This color is equal parts red and green (RGB 60,60,0)
Essentially, we are always under the Purkinje effect(Missing link, see linked post) to varying degrees.
There is also more psychology about it in that we learn to not trust our eyes and to second guess ourselves. We also sit there and think about what color something is. Normal vision people do not, they simply see the color. Normal vision people may think about color but they think more in terms of, āis this closer to red or green?ā, whereas we think in terms of, āis this red or green?ā.
EDIT: Apologies; deuteranope is no cones and deuteranomaly is fewer or less sensitive cones.
My apologies for conflating the two when reading the OPās title.
However, my previous explanation is much the same, even for dichromats(Missing link, see linked post)."
why does purple look the same as blue for the most part for me with some looking like greyish blue or just grey?
Iāve never been able to pick out purple and iām green blind
White light and tints and shades of grey are made of equal parts of red, green and blue.
Purple(Missing link, see linked post) is a dark shade of Magenta(Missing link, see linked post). It has equal parts red and blue and literally no green.
So to make a tint of magenta you increase the green. To make a shade of magenta you decrease red and blue equally. This makes the color more like white light(or closer to a tint or shade of grey), green is the whiteness slider for magenta. In a similar fashion, red is the whiteness slider for Cyan(Missing link, see linked post) and blue is the whiteness slider for Yellow(Missing link, see linked post).
Grey is also an issue here because grey is a shade of white, with equal amounts of red, green and blue. However if you show a green blind person Grey(Missing link, see linked post) they may literally see a shade or tint of purple(Missing link, see linked post) because they canāt see green well.
But the converse is true as well.
Colors out in the world are rarely perfect and unless you are a professional with the equipment that has calibrated their monitor then what you see here is not perfect. Color perception will vary by lighting conditions and context. There is also a phenomenon that every human uses called color constancy(Missing link, see linked post) that colorblind people rely on heavily and use to essentially synthesize colors as all humans synthesize Magenta because it doesnāt actually exist(Missing link, see linked post).
This leaves us guessing; using context and our expectations(color constancy) to judge colors. In my experience when you take a dark blue and increase the red I also assume that green is being increased and the color gets lighter; or rather, I see the color is lighter and assume that the red and green sliders were increased to make the dark blue slightly less dark blue. This is using context and color constancy to assume what I am seeing. So until the color becomes overtly red enough I am making an assumption based on experience.
I think of it like the Minority Report going on in our color vision part of the brain. We have the actual physical process saying, āHey we see purpleā. And then Captain Experience says, āOf course he sees purple, hes green blind. This is really grey, we have seen this before!ā Then we have Professor Interpolation analyzing the color constancy and context of the color, the lighting conditions and established references; all to determine what we think we see.
TL;DR: For purple, green is the whiteness/blackness slider. As you approach white or as red and blue are reduced in equal amounts enough to approach black, it is easy for green blind people to confuse purple with grey, in fact anywhere where green approaches the same intensity as red and blue, as seen in the purple vs grey example above.
I hope this helps
Cheers!"
Let me know if you have more questions.
I donāt think thereās any question that color blindness is a real-world issue. I agree, for example, that traffic lights and emergency exits should be designed with this issue in mind. However, should an artist paint their work using only a limited pallete? To what extant should a computer game (or anyone) eliminate colors that someone else cannot see? Should CCP stop using teal, because some people think it looks grey? Specifically, with regard to the game launcher, I donāt see any reason why grey should be objectionableā¦ and so I donāt see any reason why teal should be eliminated.
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The issue with the launcher is the updating bar, some of us cant see the color change as it updates.
So you folks that think we are stupid and cant tell a triangle from a square, suck it.
even then, the buttons to load the characters arenāt visible when the launcher is downloading something, and neither is the ālaunch groupā buttonā¦ you can visibly see the words ādownloading 31 mb/s other technical jargonā etc right?
not trying to sound like a jerkā¦ But the color scheme for the launcher matches the website.
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The issue is that you are virtue signalling about how much better CCP could be doing, by talking to people who are not CCP employees. If you have a complaint about the game, make a support ticket. Complaining in the forums will only get you mocked by those who see a more significant problem with your sense of entitlement.
You can do better!
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There is colour change while it updates? Iām not colourblind, but I recall waiting for the download speed text to disappear before trying to launch the game.
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TL;DR
No.
Should? Zero.
Do you see the text that indicates progressā¦?
I work with profoundly autistic and intellectually challenged individuals who can tell a triangle from a square. If you canāt tell a triangle from a square you have real problems beyond not seeing certain colors.
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I think ā¦ i was not idiot ā¦ that i could see i have been taking gates ā¦ there was no need for all these gate apperance , jump animations ectā¦ sun were sun before they add these animations, jita station needs to get bigger ? Because of it cannot store our assets or when ve dock up our ships scratched by other ships tails ? Last 3 weeks before i stop playingā¦ i had been closing my ayes everytime i had been gating due to flash .or look other direction .
I am not an idiot i do see which system which gate i am standing atā¦ New ālooks goodUIā ā¦ what it bring to us better than the older one ?
ALL the time they invest , AAAALL these efforts works on details on ships, and these skins ā¦CCP selling
Skins that has no effect on your gameplay or ships attributes at alll! I can seperate triangle from squireā¦
Why ? ? ?
We are not idiots?
if this is that much simpleā¦ yes ā¦ soryā¦ but we are ā¦at least we had been treated that wayā¦ so it appears to us more ā¦appealing !
@Gerard_Amatin , @Xuixien ā¦
New Direction : check the UI threadā¦ there are. X20 times more players be ā intimidating CCP ā and do it far more harshly than this OPā¦ just for the emty space between the columns !
Tell these to them and work on all of them please,ā¦
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Or it could get more people to make support tickets.
Thatās how grassroots campaigning works.
āCandidate Gadget
I have been told first hand by CCP and even GMs after i made ticketsā¦ to bring subjects to forumsā¦ that includes my last ā Letter to CCP ā thread.
So if players tell me sent this to directly to CCP and in that case if CCP already told me cealry sent it to Forumsā¦
Then i dont see anything to discuss about . It is very clean ā¦
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It might be due to how you are presenting it to the forumsā¦ You cannot explain stuff to the GMās and players the same exact wayā¦ You present it as an issue directed at CCP, you are going to be told to take it to CCPā¦ You need to present the two differently.
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Forum pages very often adressed by CCP and Gm s to share ideas sugestions ect ectā¦
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I would like to remind you just how small of a market share that actually is. There is nothing tone- deaf about not diverting resources for what probably amounts to less than 90% of your active users.
But this isnāt even a color blind thing. Iām not color blind and even I thought my launcher was broken and have trouble telling at a glance what accounts I have activated.
You meant 10%?
Or you actually mean if something is less used than by the 90% (overwhelming majority, almost all) of the users then it is not worth diverting resources to?
Yeah that way
But it looks better to normies and a certain CSM so that means the game is better.
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like I saidā¦ i see the backlash hereā¦
still, I donāt understand why CCP trying to make so much graphic ā ā ā ā betterā¦ we are not idiotsā¦ i know if I use x skin my velator wonāt get some bonuses on slot layoutā¦
also, i know I am taking the gate ffsā¦ i donāt need that flash screw my ayes.
Also i know which gate i am taking which system i am inā¦ Iām not some unconscious amip
sun is sunā¦ and icon is sun iconā¦ i donāt care about restā¦ it might be flying squire grey stone in the spaceā¦ has zero effect on my gameplay as long as it is warpable object time by time some noobs run there so we can catch and kill them thereā¦
Also againā¦ there are 20 times more people in UI thread using 1000 times more heavy words just because of that blank area in skill UIā¦ they donāt have any genetic problem i thinkā¦
there must be somethingā¦
Note: i am not mentally challenged. i can differentiate triangle from square tooā¦ change colour 1 sec action time effort.
has no effect on gameplay.
MAke sun shinier add gate animation. Make UI less functional but more ālook niceā . months of work time effort on staff.
has no effect on gameplay.
And person here who says give chance to New UI ā¦ takes time and effort to catch the functionality the old one has alreadyā¦ but it will look better at the endā¦ CCP did a lot of work for that ā WHYY ??? For the people who donāt even have any issue with the old one and no genetic issues to enjoy it ā¦@Gerard_Amatin this is your hypocrisyā¦
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I do.
I read what CCP did to you. Iām none too happy about that and if CCP is that kind of company, I donāt want to play their game.
Bye everyone.
@Ramona_McCandless You rock.
@bluelysian Donāt let the bast-ards get you down.
See ya
You link my name, twice, so I would like to respond.
However I am literally unable to understand what youāre trying to say. The lack of punctuation, grammar, coherenceā¦ My mind just goes āerrorā. I do believe you mean well but English is not my first language and I really have trouble figuring out what your messages on this forum mean, so I usually skip trying at all. Sorry about that.
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