New players have no reason to Sub and keep playing

[Kalkoken_Askiras]

Ask yourself, if you were starting playing eve for the first time, would you sub and keep playing?
Hell, I wouldn’t. What you would realize after you learn the game basics are as follows:

1- Huge spam of moneymaking and combat alts:
You can’t really enjoy eve with one toon unfortunately, i always found that having a second toon makes life so much easier. But when it comes to having 3+ rorq alts and 2+ combar capital alts, it just becomes clear to new players that they can’t do anything, if they were to participate in nullsec activities. Years ago, you used to be able to have fun with a single target painting ship, or T2 tackle. Capital proliferation makes the gap between starters and veterans huge, and yes, people who play for more than 10 years should have the advantage both skill and equipment vise. Yet it the uncontrolled gap becomes a problem if it becomes the main driving for behind losing new players.

2- Lack of security until you get a hold of core game mechanics.
A new player will be likely to try every mechanic of the game, which is usually mining, then mission running and exploration. I am not here to cry about high sec gankers, it’s fine, if an old player is the target that’s also fine. It becomes problematic when a 5 day old player get ganked while mining and asked buy a “permit”. AT that point the player simply goes “Frack that” and uninstalls. EVE might be a sandbox game, yet if the sandbox is driving people away then it should be limited. Look at the other popular games, unfortunately we are spammed with no-brainer games, where you get hand-holded from the start.

3- Balance of opportunity
Want people to go nullsec and play the game it was meant to be played? Players need money to settle in nullsec. Players need certain requirements to join proper nullsec corps. In the end, they need game knowledge and proper capital to settle in. If a nullsec player is allowed to make 2bil/h semi afk, a high sec player should be given the opportunity to settle himself in a short period of time and move on. We have skill trading available to us now, unless a sees the potential of the game, they will not buy SP with realmoney. (excluding the too many chromosome cases).

Tl;dr
As game gets older REAL NEW PLAYERS not random alts should be given increasing amount of opportunity to close the gap to an acceptable degree.
Game of Alts mechanic is driving people away, scaring them in the age of no-brainer games.
Sandbox environment loses it’s purpose if its driving away the new players.

Tl;dr of Tl;dr
I just want to see 55k+ players online again.

[Bemo]

What? So much text … so little correct info.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Kalkoken_Askiras

It becomes problematic when a 5 day old player get ganked while mining and asked buy a “permit”. AT that point the player simply goes “Frack that” and uninstalls.

CCP looked into that and found no evidence of this to be true. In fact the data indicates that people who get suicide ganked within their first 15 days are more likely to subscribe.

EVE Fanfest 2015: Using Science to Help Newbros

Also you are not a new player, so stop speaking for them. They are not as cowardly and afraid to lose some pixel spaceships as you seem to be.

[mimi45]

@Ima_Wreckyou

CCP looked into that and found no evidence of this to be true. In fact the data indicates that people who get suicide ganked within their first 15 days are more likely to subscribe.

You really believe in this ??

How about tooth fairy ?

[mimi45]

Come on even ccp drop that data and attitude

[Dark_Engraver]

Plenty of null entities take new players in offer them proper guides on what to do and how to do it even as alphas.Yes the gap is very hard to close if not impossible but that’s the reward we have to settle for being older

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@mimi45

You really believe in this ??

No, there is actual evidence for it.

@mimi45

How about tooth fairy ?

No comment, I don’t want to disturb the believes of the local carebears.

[Nana_Skalski]

Making money and mining is too easy in null even when you consider its risky business. Its not because there is one reason, there are multiple reasons. ROrquals rebalance that made them mining behemoths, ratting anomalies that you can do semi afk even, and if you lose the ship, you made enough to buy 5 or 6 in that place already. ISK and minerals are just so easy to have. Look up goons and their extensive resource and ISK farming in game. There is no economical safety in null, people dont balance things on their own, its not how it works, it just dont work when people do what they do in game. CCP is afraid of balancing it, there are no people who would do that or they have stupid ideas like nerfing carriers DPS because they make too much ISK.

[mimi45]

@Ima_Wreckyou

No, there is actual evidence for it.

The man create that “evidence” was fired from ccp, I wonder why they get rid of that excellent scientist ???

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@mimi45

The man create that “evidence” was fired from ccp, I wonder why they get rid of that excellent scientist ???

CCP Rise is still working for CCP.

[mimi45]

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Is that you?

[The_Dunning_Kruger]

This one looks more accurate if you ask me

[Black_Pedro]

@mimi45

You really believe in this ??

How about tooth fairy ?

Seems plausible to me. Eve can be a terribly boring game if, as for many people, the NPE shunts you off to mine alone in a Venture for a week or two before giving up.

If it is between something happening, and nothing happening, I’ll bet the something happening retains more players statistically.

As for the OP, that’s a lot of words projecting your feelings onto hypothetical new players. I’ll agree there are issues getting new players integrated into the sandbox, but you really seem to be putting your frustrations onto others. I mean alts are an unfortunate reality of Eve, but they have been forever. It may even be a bit better now than before since CCP got tough on input broadcast cheaters. I am generally in favour of making game changes that reduce the scalability of multiboxing and reward more active play, but I am not sure this is a really pressing new player issue.

As for more security, don’t you think highsec is safe and boring enough already? People have argued for over 15 years that there would be a huge influx of new players and CCP would be rolling in subscription money if only CCP made highsec safer. Yet when CCP listened and started buffing highsec safety, subscriber numbers and highsec activity only went go down. A lot of things have changed so it’s hard to blame all the decline in highsec on the constant nerfs to PvP in that sector of space, but there definitely is no evidence that this ‘Carebear Hypothesis’ is true. If anything, I’ve seen committed Eve players quit over the constant pandering to a type of gamer that if does exist, is a minority or is never going to come play Eve no matter how safe you make highsec.

I can accept the argument that a perfectly safe highsec might attract and retain more players - I disagree with it and think the excitement generated risk and the rich economy a full-loot PvP everywhere sandbox game is a more appealing game - but I accept a reasonable person could think that. But I find those that disingenuously argue that new players are quitting in droves because they lost an imaginary spaceship in a PvP game about building and losing spaceships a little irksome. You are making up some sob story about a non-existent player as your evidence. At least stick to some facts, or even anecdotes if you are going to argue for game changes that coincidentally benefit you.

Now, I am not sure where you are getting this 2B ISK/h while AFK number, but what is stopping you from going out and getting some yourself? Pretty much all the groups in nullsec want more warm bodies, and yes income potential is gated to some degree by SP and number of alts, the opportunity is there for anyone. Highsec Incursions already offer a competitive income stream to nullsec, certainly enough “to settle” in nullsec, but obviously there has to be increased rewards possible in nullsec to offset the increased risk and effort of living somewhere without magical space police who destroy anyone who even tries to explode you.

So while I am sympathetic that you don’t enjoy the game of alts, this post seems yet another one asking for CCP to gut the competitive game some more so that everyone can be a winner. I am sure there are changes that would minimize the scalability of alts and flatten the power discrepancy between older and newer players, but just making highsec safer and more lucrative, if that is what you are arguing, isn’t the way to do it. Too much is lost every time CCP makes the game safer and easier (and we are gone too far down this road to nowhere already) and there is no evidence this strategy does anything other than make the game more boring and drive committed players away.

TL;DR: No.

[mimi45]

@Ima_Wreckyou

CCP Rise is still working for CCP.

I was not mentioning “talking head Rise” which read prepared text on stage, I was talking about someone who "found data indicates "

[Hir_Miriel]

Numbers are the best. 55k players, actual players, would be an improvement, but that won’t ever happen again as a permanent increase.

EVE players need space. Too many players and Eden gets too crowded and people don’t enjoy the over-crowding.

Plus there are obvious problem areas, such as…

Start game… find out about NPC corp taxes.
Think about joining cheaper tax corp, get told by CCP that every player is allowed to be an arsehole.
So start solo corp instead, thereby ingraining a solo playstyle.
Which is the opposite of what CCP wants.
Now solo players are not a bad thing to have, most MMO players are solo, hence all the alt accounts.
But it’s a bad thing when you are aiming to be something and you don’t really know where you are aiming or where you are coming from.

Anyhow, that’s just an example.

Going free to play is not a bad thing, it lowers the main barrier, and provides some fresh meat that may stay.

But yes, the overall strategy doesn’t seem the best, seems more to lean to milking the aging cow, but no doubt the strategy will change again in a year or two, so there is always hope.

[Tipa_Riot]

@Kalkoken_Askiras

You can’t really enjoy eve with one toon unfortunately

You can, you really can, believe me … I’m enjoying EvE for 5 years not using an alt beside keeping my money safe from misclicks. The additional benefit? You can’t multibox Rorquals in nullsec all day, which is a huge quality of life improvement.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@mimi45

I was not mentioning “ talking head Rise ” which read prepared text on stage, I was talking about someone who "found data indicates "

They obviously had multiple people looking at this multiple times and as it seems they all came to the same conclusion. Your lack of actual arguments is really telling.

[mimi45]

You see ccp do not have arguments for their claim about “ganking attract people to stay in game” ( whole claim is hilarious … ) and you turning that upside down and claim that I do not have arguments.

You are so funny fanboy

You can not avoid/hide true !!!

[Dark_Engraver]

Shut up we don’t need more space we used to have plenty of players with same space as now

We also had alot less stupid tools to track what you ate and what color your ■■■■ was when it came out.There was less information freely thrown around so people went for the fights

Wspace had such great appeal because it was new but it was also unknown you didn’t have all the facts given to you upfront for everyone and their dog trying to take turns gang raping you like we have in null when someone realizes their neighboring enemy is soft and they can poke them to death.

Kill boards have probably killed more fights in eve than anything ccp did or ever will do.