New Tutorial Feedback/Comments


(Boldly Gone) #64

Oh, I remember the relief but also disappointment as I crashed in the tutorial my Velator into a wreck and it just bounced away like a rubber ball.
Of course warping throug planets and or zooming through stations looks weird, but I’m always in awe how they manage the shadow conditions and the planetary positioning in a 3D model.

Hmm, for me they look quite good. Sure you have best settings? Can you render a screenshot?


(Mika Kakkinen) #65

It feels a bit long and a bit shallow. I mean, it covers the basic basics about moving, targeting and shooting, but it doesn’t really tell you anything useful about fitting, weapon types, ammo. I had to track down and read several guides after finishing it to understand what I am doing.


(felicia Tekitsu) #66

hi all


(Ishaan Aldent) #67

Yeah, when I first started I lost the free Catalyst I got becuase I didn’t realize the guns need ammo. This is a small but helpful tip that needs to be added.


(Jaleen en Tilavine) #68

I have just come to Eve after a six year layoff. Trying to remember how to play, I decided to use my old power of two account and use my untrained char to relearn how to play. I ran missions for all agents i. The home station. I found it very helpful. Much better than when I first went to New Eden.

With that said, I did find the scanning tutorial mission very frustrating. I realize skills and practice will help tremendously but ugh. Is there any way to help with that?

At any rate, good job CCP. I think I may come back OMEGA…


(Quelza) #69

What’s amusing is that CCP have some kind-of-competent tutorial vids for scanning and other topics built into the client, but they are hidden on the secondary tab of the Help window. It’s a resource that they ought to point out in the tutorial.


(DrysonBennington) #70

I ran the tutorials in an alt and thought that they were rather good.

Maybe Epic Arc Tutorial missions should be created along with a Burner tutorial to get the Rookie fully acclimated to the environment.


(Xander Orlenard) #71

I played the minmatar tutorial myself. It’s bad.
First thing in EVE, NEVER AUTOPILOT. This is very bad since it teaches people to do that.
People are going to get killed and they will never play the game again if you don’t teach the different mechanics.

I also asked a noob how he was doing and I found out it didn’t teach him even the most basic of game mechanics.
I recruited the noob into my corp and had to hold his hand. I like teaching new people but the tutorial should be vastly improved.


(Aishtar Sheran) #72

Having previously watched it on Youtube, I knew I would have lost my shiny Merlin doing the Drifter Hive tutorial, then I skipped it because that ship looked like a fortress I really wanted to keep. I lost it the same day in Kisogo beause of some rat, a Pithi-something…

Never used a Venture, at least…


(Boldly Gone) #73

You get 2 Merlins for free from the career agents, just tried with a brand new alpha alt. But ratting with a 3 day old character is cumbersome, I admit. The Cormorant disappointed me, but perhaps it’s just the low skill level this toon has.


(Anton Garmonizator) #74

It would be great to see two letters in mailbox after finishing tutorial.
First from Commander with some advices about Career agents.
Second from Aura with keys learned and links to forums.


(Pragg Cox) #76

I finished the tutorial yesterday. Am now working on Agent missions. Industry to be exact. My thoughts. Keep in mind I came to this game from another completely different MMO, SWTOR.

Auto Pilot. At first I thought it was cool. Made it easy to get around. Until I hit the map and asked in Rookie chat what the maps was used for if I had auto-pilot and just had to click my destination. I was told (by everyone in the channel) not to use auto pilot. It’s an easy way to die. So my question is, why teach it to me? The info I needed I didn’t get. I’m still trying to figure out how to travel without auto pilot. You didn’t do me any favors in that regard.

Combat. Targeting. Ok I got it. Aura taught me to Approach, Orbit, Lock and Fire. But she forgot Keep At Range (which I later found out was very important). Coming from another game, I assumed once I targeted (and was getting hit) the guns would turn on themselves. I found out they didn’t the hard way (ok it was fun… but still). Also I had rail guns. Which, I later found out, are fine against big targets. But small targets, like drones, they aren’t. That would’ve been nice to know too. Because in the Agent missions I almost died from those small drones guarding asteroids. My rails gun didn’t hit any of them. But they hit me. Every shot.

Not that I mind dying. I don’t. But to die to such lowbie mobs would just be damn embarrassing.

Lore. I had no idea who the Sisters were or are and I still don’t. I felt like I was thrown into the story with no background. I had to ask in chat who they were and who the Dreamers(? - not sure what they are called) are. And why I was killing, or trying to kill them. I’m a lore hound. So that bothered me. I suppose I should take it upon myself and google the lore.

Also the story ended. Just ended. Does it continue later on?

My ship. Losing my ship at the end of the tutorial. Ok I get you want me to feel the pain of defeat. Trust, I’ve been ganked, griefed, zerged, and corpse camped enough times in enough games to know I will die in this game. I will die a lot. I’m ok with that. But did you have to take my ship? And replace it with a mining ship? That’s the only reason I went to the Industrial Agent. That would not had been my first choice (though it turns out I enjoy mining. Oddly. It’s relaxing. When it nice and quiet.) I really want to be a scout who can do some mining and building. Which brings to my biggest issue.

Training. I have no idea what I am doing. I am reacting not planning. I can’t even find spec examples on the net. Sure, lots of info on how to train and what each skill is. But I don’t know which skills I should focus on to achieve my goals. Which translates into me wasting RL time.

An example is the Industrial Agent. She sends me on a mission to mine after killing the drones protecting the area. I toll out there with my mining ship only to escape half alive and wondering what I did wrong. To Rookie chat. That’s where I learned not to use rail guns on those guys and that since I’m in a mining ship, I should be using drones to go after them. I was like, “drones”?

I remember Aura mentioning them. Also because of my background, the intro to the game mentioned them. But I had no idea what they where used for. So I had to dock, and train. Rather figure out what to train. And interrupt my current training. And wait. And type this reply.

So after this wall of text, it boils down too - I think the game does not have enough readily available information for the newb to understand the real basics of the game. I should not have to dock and google to find out the best practices.

I think there should be much much more of the tutorial. The ability to turn it off and on. And to select a topic and get a quick run down from Aura. I mean, this is a big game. It needs information available for newbs to not feel lost. I know I feel lost (though it’s getting better).

What the game did right? Eveything else. Why I subbed last night.

Regards.

PS: Sorry for deleting the previous post. I didn’t mean to post as a reply to a comment.


(Skiff McGriff) #77

I found the tutorial to be very useful and liked the support I found through the Rookie Chat.

I think the tutorial goes a little overboard with “praising” you as a lucky/bad-ass/hero. All of that quickly evaporates as you get into the game and realize you basically were handheld and coddled the entire time. Striking a balance between hand-holding and motivating praise is the only area where I could see potential for improvement.

Otherwise, it was a super useful tutorial filled with a lot of fluff for fleshing out backstory (if you are into that sort of thing).


(Dyver Phycad) #78

Why can’t I warp away from the start location when I have clearly cleared the warp disruption field generator effect? I was 320 km away from the structure and maybe 10km from the edge of the bubble but I still could not warp because external factors prevented it.


(Shva Shakti) #79

o7

Returning player, bailed around Incarna. I feel like it’s a very different game, created a new pilot, ran through the tutorials. Years back, I won a few PLEX (old PLEX) worth of store credit for an essay on Women in Eve from the old “Blog Banter” contests.

So I come back, run the tutorials – and find at the forward rendezvous – I’m MALE.

Guys, it’s just a couple audio clips for each race (yes, I checked that the COs were different for Caldari and Gallente and they both misgendered me as male – even though the Caldari CO was a woman, gj). I’m retired now. It’s part of why I’m back. Got my son through military academy and such, into a job in biotech, did my RL stint saving the world, now I have time to retire in New Eden.

Please make it a great place.

Somewhere around 2014 you seem to have stopped reporting what percent of Eve players were female after it dropped a percent or two down from 5%. Little things like this make a difference in the new women coming into the game not bailing.

I can respect someone podding me so much better than someone erasing me or treating me like I am some kind of doormat because I have two X chromosomes.

I am not here to make you a sandwich. I am here to buy you beer. I pay for my accounts.

Players pay for your beer, and more women would pay for your beer if you were good to us in the same sort of way you think about, oh, Chinese players. Because you know, there are more women in the world, than there are Chinese, just sayin’. Not all of them will play this game, but you are missing out.

Your market should be probably minimum 10% female these days.

https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/ (look at the numbers for, say, SF MMO, FPS, tactical shooters)

And growing every year.

You just have to stop thinking like 2003.

Respectfully,

Shva/Ginette


(Boldly Gone) #80

Because you are treated like you were male you feel like some kind of doormat? Well, welcome to the male world, we’re all doormats and easy prey.
Because there are many female characters played by male players, I don’t differ in male or female in the game. So it’s a pity if you feel offended, but looking at the odds you are still probably male :wink:


Edit after reading the blog: But we all should try to be respectful to each other, disregarding any gender, age, skin colour etc. I just see a toon and some sentences in chat, I even don’t know the native language of the other one. Pretty equal society, I’d say.


(Shva Shakti) #81

I was treated like I was male. But I was also called “He” and “his,” boldly, as a female toon. That’s just sloppy.

I actually would rather be treated like a man most of the time, because when men treat me like a woman, usually that means treating me like a doormat.

But I prefer it not to be overlooked that I have tits, and that women can do the same work that a man can do, competently. It’s – in fact – an issue of respect.

So when I have an entire fleet cheering, “IS THIS HIM? THE PILOT WHO…” Well, it’s depressing. It’s actually the story of my life as a retired woman in engineering, lol, who has a gender ambiguous name. No one ever asked or thought, before they met me, if I might be female, they always assumed I was male, and expressed often condescendingly pleased and delighted surprise that this competent engineer they knew from her papers and email and USENET posts was a woman – like they’d come upon some mythical creature they could show off to their friends, as a freak of nature.

You may have no idea what it was like to be a woman in STEM in the 70s.

I am not trying to “protect my delicate sensibilities” here – I am trying to help CCP. I was, at one point in my career, a VP of marketing and business development in entertainment licensed merchandise, and the CEO of an indy game company – marketing to women gamers is something I’ve written about on Gamasutra and elsewhere.

I come back to Eve after seven years and see no more concurrent logins on the server than there were when I left. It makes me worried.

In the rest of the MMO market, the market share of women in gaming in core gamers is going up and up year over year. In this game, it’s gone down, perhaps by half.

Doesn’t that worry you in terms of the basic judgement being employed by CCP? I love this game but these guys have not necessarily been the best business dudes in the world over the years.


(Boldly Gone) #82

So it’s three points:

  • He/She: Female toons should be treated female in the tutorial. Fun fact: In the vast majority of cases “him” is still right :wink:
    Any further gender issues in the generic texts like mission briefing, market, or CONCORD communication? Didn’t care for that yet.

  • Lack of respect for female players: I didn’t meet more than 3 on coms yet, but about 100 male. I never had the notion any of the female players were treated with less respect than male, also a female FC was treated like the male ones, but well, she’s quite experienced and knows how to handle the guys.
    But as I stated, normally I just see a mere picture and a phantasy name of the toon and some typing in chat, so I have no Idea about the gender of the player, and I always have in mind that behind most female toons there are male players.
    That does NOT mean that there is no harassment or disrespect in the EvE Community, but I experienced there are many decent and respectful players around, even when drunk :slight_smile: .

  • Marketing for female customers: My first CCP “contact” regarding EvE was a german blog by CCP Shadowcat (2014), a female CCP dev who started to play EvE. That sounded perfectly normal to me.
    The blog ends mid 2014, so she probably doesn’t work there any more. I presume they have a lack of female devs and employees, and thus not the best “feeling” for marketing appealing to women. So is there a “male attitude” appealing to male customers that makes CCP happy enough?


(Georgia Bayer) #83

My biggest problem with the tutorial was the fact it treated me as some kind of a ultimate hero who singlehandedly saves whole galaxies (in a Velator) and every single mission step was presented as a quest for Holy Grail. The last “battle” was the worst of it all, of course - destroying a giant alien superstructure with a watergun was the cherry on top of the “actually, this is all just a joke” cake.

Nothing in the tutorial had anything to do with the real game.

He/She

Should have simply used “They”, “Them” if adding code to modify the messages according to gender would prove difficult.


(Sebs Pride) #84

CCP brought this up when people were king relatively these same decisions.
They said there was so many do and donts in eve that if they ran through all of them, they were afraid it would over bog peoples minds, this includes the keep at range and what not.

As for the lore, another complaint is that the tutorial is up to date with lore, and not the beginning.

Sleeper lore revolves around mysterious unstable wormholes appearing, shortly after this you could randomly see sleeper drones scanning gates.
According to lore sleeper drones look like jove technology.

The jove are a super old race that have been here since before humans and the eve gate, at the peak of the amarr empires might they were war hungery, after the jove told them to stay out of their dpace, amarr decided their god and superiors numbers without ever lossing a war would protect them, the jove quickly took their ego and beat them to death with it.
Not a single jove ship was lost but the amarr armada was decimated.

The jove claimed it wasnt there, then the unstable portals became stable which allowed them to be gone through to wormhole space, there you will find a lot of sleepers, but inlike in normal space these are hostile even if unprovoked.

A few systems of wormhole space were called shattered wormholes, because every planet was blown to bits with a epiccenter in the middle with a bunch of broken wormholes.

Sisters of eve is a neutral orginization of people trying to discover the unknown, on their front they attempt to look humanitarians, giving out medical supplies and food.
But underneather that have a mad scientist skewed levels of morals on learning the known at any cost, so they are very interested in wormholes and the drifters.

Later random jovian towers began to appear in normal space along with a few knew “unknown” battleships.
Later called drifters as the way they moved was unusual, a amarr dreadnaught.
The fight was harsh but the dread looked like he was winning until the drifter unleashed a weapon of destructive capabilties never seen before.
Space and time trembled as the dreadnaught was ripped in half.

Player alliance formed up and battle a fleet of drifters, few were lost but utimately team work over threw them.

Upon hacking the towere they found out the gpal of the sleeper drones, to discover corpses, take them back and use them as parts to build new have organic half machine drifters.

After this is when the tutorial takes place, and you know the story.