New Wardec mechanics - can't wait!

[Dracvlad]

@Teckos_Pech

Indeed.

The problem isn’t that the war deccers are not putting assets at risk, they are. The problem is that their opponents are generally disinclined to fight…at all.

Here is my guess as to what will happen if this does go through, the only people who will bring the pain to the war deccing alliances are NS entities. They are the only ones with the man power and ability to bring in a fleet to HS to bash and blow up the citadel. So, war deccing allinaces will likely just drop war decs against those NS entities that can and do bash their citadels. The guy running an indy corp out of Verge Vendor or down around Hek…not much will change for him and his handful of buddies…except that now even the big blanket deccing alliances can track targets down if they are so inclined.

Yes, as you might be aware or not the larger war deckers want as many targets as possible to keep their players interested and active, so if they drop off as certain larger and more aggresie nullsec alliances react as I expect that has an impact on them.

So the larger war deckers will get smaller and then other less competent nullsec alliances will have a go and hisec corps will have perhaps a chance, as well as smaller merc entities.

The consequence is that you have a strategic target that is worth while going after, just like an IHUB with the updates, consequence, pain, defeat, loss of targets, not the current level of immunity. Eve as it should be, surely you can’t be against Eve as it should be?

PS Certain wormholers too

@Teckos_Pech

You are adding consequences…?

Don’t you actually mean you want there to be a potential consequence for a war deccing corp/alliance.

But doesn’t that potential already exist? If a corp war decs another then the decced corp can blow up the war deccers…Why does there need to be this additional change?

You answered your own question, however it is more to do with having something that could cause a fight, a content creator above having the gate campers chased away from the gates. It is not definite that people will go for it, however it is there, it is a risk and if someone gets annoyed enough they will come for them and have an impact on them, as compared to now as there is no impact and no value in wasting your time giving them a slap or two.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Dracvlad

So the larger war deckers will get smaller and then other less competent nullsec alliances will have a go and hisec corps will have perhaps a chance, as well as smaller merc entities.

Or they just dec more small groups and avoid those that can and will bring the fight to them.

@Dracvlad

So the larger war deckers will get smaller and then other less competent nullsec alliances will have a go and hisec corps will have perhaps a chance, as well as smaller merc entities.

This is almost never the case. And some NS groups they aren’t going to do anything–e.g. the renters.

@Dracvlad

The consequence is that you have a strategic target that is worth while going after, just like an IHUB with the updates, consequence, pain, defeat, loss of targets, not the current level of immunity.

Only for those NS entities that want to keep from being war decced. The rest won’t do anything. And HS war targets won’t do anything either.

We have seen this “this will lead to smaller entities” in game before. And shockingly it hasn’t really worked very well. Players have shown time-and-again that they are rather inventive at finding ways to not do what CCP and others think they’ll obviously do. And part of the problem here is that many of those who get war decced simply do not want to play that sort of game. Which is fine, but cranking down harder on war deccers strikes me as just not helpful.

Just had a thought…

Allow watchlist like functionality if a war deccing corp/alliance has only X war decs where X is a “small” number. Once you go past X, then no watchlist like function and you can just be a hub humper.

[Dracvlad]

@Teckos_Pech

Or they just dec more small groups and avoid those that can and will bring the fight to them.

No, because those small groups don’t give as many kills and turtle up, go and check who make up the bulk of the kills in hisec.

@Teckos_Pech

This is almost never the case. And some NS groups they aren’t going to do anything–e.g. the renters.

Not all renters are simpering cowards…, some will and some won’t, it depends on attitude, but I am sure that some will go for it.

@Teckos_Pech

Only for those NS entities that want to keep from being war decced

Well you have to have a reason like that to go for them. Some people will continue not to be bothered and ignore them, which is fine. But some will not and that is the interesting part of this. And if enough do it perhaps some people in hisec can gang up against the war deckers and content is created.

@Teckos_Pech

We have seen this “this will lead to smaller entities” in game before. And shockingly it hasn’t really worked very well. Players have shown time-and-again that they are rather inventive at finding ways to not do what CCP and others think they’ll obviously do. And part of the problem here is that many of those who get war decced simply do not want to play that sort of game. Which is fine, but cranking down harder on war deccers strikes me as just not helpful.

Still there is now a consequences in terms of reaction and things being blown up rather than ah 500m to war dec the Goons, isn’t it better in terms of Eve to say ah, I won’t war dec the Goons because they will come blow my Concord linked Citadel up?

It could work the other way and create a powerhouse in hisec that can stand up nullsec alliances, but it is a change it is still content, why so negative, is change that scary.

And the Concord agent will give some location and activity data in person, which will help hunters like the locator agent.

@Teckos_Pech

Just had a thought…

Allow watchlist like functionality if a war deccing corp/alliance has only X war decs where X is a “small” number. Once you go past X, then no watchlist like function and you can just be a hub humper.

That is what the Agent does, because a hunter will have a value in having a Astrahus with a Concord agent in even if he does not need the ability to do more than 4 war decs. The watch list is too much intel, the locator approach with activity information is better as more fog.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Dracvlad

No, because those small groups don’t give as many kills and turtle up, go and check who make up the bulk of the kills in hisec.

Currently. Change things like you want too and that may no longer be the case. Remember, these are people and people can and will react back on attempts to get them to do things they do not want to do.

@Dracvlad

It could work the other way and create a powerhouse in hisec that can stand up nullsec alliances, but it is a change it is still content, why so negative, is change that scary.

See the above. People have an annoying tendancy to react back against things. Trying to create incentives often times backfires. We see it now with Trump’s mercantilist policies. Harley Davidson is likely going to ship some of its operations overseas to avoid the tariffs that the EU put on them in response to Trump’s tariffs on the EU. So while protecting one category of jobs (steel and aluminum workers) Trump’s policy is harming others (the Harley Davidson workers and some of the other 900,000 people who work in steel and aluminum consuming companies).

Further, groups that want to do targeted war decs are not going to want a large number of active decs, as such this is indeed an added burden on them.

Really, why are we not forcing the targets of these war decs to get out there and fight?

@Dracvlad

That is what the Agent does, because a hunter will have a value in having a Astrahus with a Concord agent in even if he does not need the ability to do more than 4 war decs. The watch list is too much intel, the locator approach with activity information is better as more fog.

Locator agents suck for a targeted war dec group. Unless they work much, much faster and give online status…in which case you’ve pretty much recreated the watch list.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Teckos_Pech

We see it now with Trump’s mercantilist policies. Harley Davidson is likely going to ship some of its operations overseas to avoid the tariffs that the EU put on them in response to Trump’s tariffs on the EU. So while protecting one category of jobs (steel and aluminum workers) Trump’s policy is harming others (the Harley Davidson workers and some of the other 900,000 people who work in steel and aluminum consuming companies).

Bringing Trump into a gaming debate and speaking of him in a bad light

I can already tell your input will be constructive and objective.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

Bringing Trump into a gaming debate and speaking of him in a bad light

I can already tell your input will be constructive and objective.

I don’t expect Drac to take exception to the bad light, but I could be wrong (and quite surprised).

[Dracvlad]

@Teckos_Pech

Currently. Change things like you want too and that may no longer be the case. Remember, these are people and people can and will react back on attempts to get them to do things they do not want to do.

I am not forcing anyone to do anything, it is down to the players to react to this.

@Teckos_Pech

See the above. People have an annoying tendancy to react back against things. Trying to create incentives often times backfires.

So what it is still content.

@Teckos_Pech

We see it now with Trump’s mercantilist policies. Harley Davidson is likely going to ship some of its operations overseas to avoid the tariffs that the EU put on them in response to Trump’s tariffs on the EU. So while protecting one category of jobs (steel and aluminum workers) Trump’s policy is harming others (the Harley Davidson workers and some of the other 900,000 people who work in steel and aluminum consuming companies).

Well that is because the EU are going after Trump because he has a different world view to them, whereas China’s trade policies have pretty much destroyed large swathes of low level and medium level industry in Europe. The Steel and Aluminium that China produces and dumps in Europe has also destroyed much of that industry in Europe too and we saw the main steel producers sold off cheap to India who then closed down the factories and moved all the equipment to India, that happened in France and Britain. Don’t get me started on this…

And you do know that the past trade deals the US did was to allow free movement of capital and services rather than industrial goods, hence the 10% tarif on cars fron the US and only 2.5% from Europe to the US. Though note the 25% tarif on small trucks to the US…

Subsidies and dumping, forced technology transfers are all the same as tarifs, distortions.

Harley Davidson is being focused on by people like Junker, partially as it is seen as an icon of American culture, the European media were crowing about it as if it was some great victory, which is dumb as hell. I hope Trump goes nuts and sticks 25% on German cars now because of this and I can say that as a European who wants my leaders to do the same as Trump against China’s bad practices so our people can have jobs again thank you…, even though the Chinese works work damn hard and much of Europeans lack of competitiveness is down to wasteful spending based on excessive taxation.

@Teckos_Pech

Really, why are we not forcing the targets of these war decs to get out there and fight?

I tried to explain that in the war dec discord, it is pretty easy to undertand that trying to push people who will never fight to fight is not as good as making it more like that people who want to fight will get a fight, hence my suggestion.

@Teckos_Pech

Locator agents suck for a targeted war dec group. Unless they work much, much faster and give online status…in which case you’ve pretty much recreated the watch list.

You have to get the balance right between the two extremes, that is down to CCP to work out.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Dracvlad

I tried to explain that in the war dec discord, it is pretty easy to undertand that trying to push people who will never fight to fight is not as good as making it more like that people who want to fight will get a fight, hence my suggestion.

I know, but why are we pushing in the other direction? Pushing in the other direction is not going to get the targets to fight, in general. And war dec alliances are not going to want to go toe-to-toe with NS alliances on the terms of NS alliances.

[Whitehound]

@Teckos_Pech

@Dracvlad

I am adding real consequences.

You are adding consequences…?

Don’t you actually mean you want there to be a potential consequence for a war deccing corp/alliance.

But doesn’t that potential already exist? If a corp war decs another then the decced corp can blow up the war deccers…Why does there need to be this additional change?

He still doesn’t know that one can already declare war and destroy structures. He thinks it’s currently not possible and so that’s why he thinks he’s the one adding it to the game as a real consequence.

[Dracvlad]

@Teckos_Pech

And war dec alliances are not going to want to go toe-to-toe with NS alliances on the terms of NS alliances.

Well they have, they did that in Perimeter, however it comes to a point in terms of numbers that quality does not matter in terms of bling fits, implants etc…

However PH did get reduced fleets over time, so it really comes down to whether the nullsec have other stuff on and whether they are annoyed enough about the war dec. But the simple fact is that it gives a consequence to war decking the wrong people, those wrong people currently have no incentive or value in going to hisec to do some slapping, my suggestion will give that value.

@Teckos_Pech

I know, but why are we pushing in the other direction? Pushing in the other direction is not going to get the targets to fight, in general.

Part of this is to develop a value in hisec for people to gang together more, at this point it is mainly one man corps, maybe with this a group of more up to it type of people could join in against a war deckers citadel and over time they could develop a more proactive and independent attitude. As I said it is aimed at giving those that want to fight an incentive to fight.

Oh dear look at this:

@Whitehound

He still doesn’t know that one can already declare war and destroy structures. He thinks it’s currently not possible and so that’s why he thinks he’s the one adding it to the game as a real consequence.

The quality of troll posting has got worse and worse, this guy could be an alt of Linus Gorp with that level of self salty butt hurt…

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

The quality of troll posting has got worse and worse, this guy could be an alt of Linus Gorp with that level of self salty butt hurt…

Not trolling, just stating facts. We definitely can already declare war and destroy structures. Why you don’t want to accept this as reality… who knows?!

[Dracvlad]

@Whitehound

Not trolling, just stating facts. We definitely can already declare war and destroy structures. Why you don’t want to accept this as reality… who knows?!

Well you could believe that I believe in the tooth fairy if you want, makes no difference to me.

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

Well you could believe that I believe in the tooth fairy if you want, makes no difference to me.

But why do you still believe in the tooth fairy? What’s the point of it?

[Sukara_Vespara]

@Dracvlad

Cry more please.

@Dracvlad

The quality of troll posting has got worse and worse, this guy could be an alt of Linus Gorp with that level of self salty butt hurt…

For all you kids out there, when you are resorting to this sort of language, thats when you have lost the argument.

[Dracvlad]

@Sukara_Vespara

For all you kids out there, when you are resorting to this sort of language, thats when you have lost the argument.

You are getting salty now, please continue…

Because above I detailed exactly my experience, and your come back was childish and pathetic, I will put it here so you can see it again, you might have a problem with using the scroll wheel on your mouse based on your posting:

@Dracvlad

I don’t recall me ever saying I was a hisec war decker. So your post is full of guff and huff.

I developed a lot of information on war deckers during this period as I expected to be war decked due to my posting and never really was, I had all the main war deckers on watch lists, I had their scouts, corp flippers, their neutral logi all logged. I did a lot of observation, on those I perceived as a potential threat. As I was based in Khafis to keep out of the way of the main ones the most evident threats were PIRAT and Devils.

But the way I play has a reason for this, for example when Deadly Fingertips war decked me having seen me move an Orca from Osmon to Jita, I played with their Jita camper for three days during their weakest TZ, I could have blown him up twice, but my intention was to be a pain in the ass rather than be someone that they wanted to get because I blew one of them up.

And in that I judged correctly as they said good resistance and did not war dec me again, I cost them, watching him warp in a panic when I undocked a Vindi and a Bhal on him was funny as hell, their Nestor ball was impressive… By the way I like Saeger…

And this is key, don’t be an easy kill and get in their way of their easy farming. It is not difficult and that is why you have no clue.

Jonah tried to get some war deckers to come after me because of my posting and they told him not to bother, and there is a reason for that reply. So any way, suck it up mate, feel free to war dec me at any time to show your ignorance about me, like a person who said Magic Citadels…,

PS I was in the war dec discord to be a voice from the other side so to speak, but the number of people who seemed to forget that was funny…, telling me I was not something I never said I was as if it meant something. So please continue I enjoyed it.

I have never said that I was a war decker or a merc, but you seem to think that it is important when there are two parties in a war dec, the war decker and the defender and there are certain strategies open to the defender which consist of avoidance.

And you cannot see that people operating successfully in hisec with a limited number of war decs while doing loads of missions and mining while being very active on the forums says something.

Avoidance my dear misunderstanding one, of course it is not on the killboard, and I say that as you appear to not be able to work that out, which is about the level of a lot of posters on these forums…

Thanks for the desperation post, made me laugh, let me link it again.

@Sukara_Vespara

For all you kids out there, when you are resorting to this sort of language, thats when you have lost the argument.

Cry more please…, I lost your puerile argument, what little there was of it Enjoy your victory, I am in awe of it, not…

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

Cry more please…,

THE ANIMALS - I'm Crying (1964)

ROY ORBISON - CRYING - LIVE 1988 - (HQ-856X480)

Aerosmith - Cryin' (Official Music Video)

[Sukara_Vespara]

@Dracvlad

I have never said that I was a war decker or a merc, but you seem to think that it is important when there are two parties in a war dec, the war decker and the defender and there are certain strategies open to the defender which consist of avoidance.

And you cannot see that people operating successfully in hisec with a limited number of war decs while doing loads of missions and mining while being very active on the forums says something.

Avoidance my dear misunderstanding one, of course it is not on the killboard, and I say that as you appear to not be able to work that out, which is about the level of a lot of posters on these forums…

You claim experience in wardecs. That means you’ve either attacked another corp, or defended against a wardec. The problem is that there is no evidence of you either as an attacker or defender. That would show up on the killboard. You would either have been killed, or killed someone during a war. If you have just avoided any contact during wars, then you don’t have experience in wardecs. You have experience in hiding and your opinion is meaningless.

I do find it amusing however, that you are calling me puerile for pointing out your childishness. Once again, if you have to resort to name calling and insults, then you lost the argument long ago.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Dracvlad Just stick to the topic, mate. This is the better thing to do for the thread.

[Dracvlad]

@Sukara_Vespara

You claim experience in wardecs. That means you’ve either attacked another corp, or defended against a wardec. The problem is that there is no evidence of you either as an attacker or defender.

Yes I have experience in war decs, it is there, including kills and losses, I do have other characters you know. There is evidence of me as an attacker, and evidence of me as a defender which is on corp and alliance history if you can work out how to do it.

That you are unable to locate it says a lot about you, get better at Eve please…, this is basic stuff and you are showing yourself up by being unable to do more than a passing bit of intel gathering.

@Sukara_Vespara

If you have just avoided any contact during wars, then you don’t have experience in wardecs. You have experience in hiding and your opinion is meaningless.

Are you mad, that is what most defenders in hisec do, avoiding being blown up is part of the war dec experience, to say that it is not shows how little understanding you have. I deliberately did not blow up people, because I did not want an emo reaction to continue the war deck, I blocked them from farming to be a pain in the ass. That shows a level of understanding as a defender that is above you. I detailed that to show you what you fail to understand.

So what argument did I lose, not anything meaningful that is for certain. Your argument is childish mate.

My suggestion is to have a content creator around structures, not some false capture the flag type bullshite that is against what I see Eve to be. I want there to be consequences for war decking a skilled nasty nullsec alliance with bored pilots who want to cause pixels to blow up enough to come to hisec to say you war dec us at your cost. I want to see people in hisec go, wow, we can do that, and I want people to start being able to hunt again without the total easy intel of the watch list.

So childishly saying you are not a war decker and you have not been in hisec when I have and was in hisec for an extended period is rather amusing. As I said cry more please.

@Whitehound I liked those songs. But if you continue you might get reported as off topic, just so you know.

@Whitehound

I don’t think anyone could get more off-topic than you with your constant demand for crying.

As a throw away line at the end of detail, oh my god mate you are bad…

@Whitehound

What is it with you and crying anyway? Do you need to cry, but can’t? If so then simply rub some chilies into your eyes and let it all out.

I am only crying with laughter, the best kind mate, because when people start attacking me personally, or going off in tangents, trying and failing to put words in my mouth it shows that they lost the argument. And you might notice that I have just dropped my reply here so as to not clutter up the thread, you might want to do that.

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

@Whitehound I liked those songs. But if you continue you might get reported as off topic, just so you know.

I don’t think anyone could get more off-topic than you with your constant demand for crying.

What is it with you and crying anyway? Do you need to cry, but can’t? If so then simply rub some chilies into your eyes and let it all out.