I honestly don’t think it will change. But regardless, you haven’t even addressed the problems I’ve put forward and are instead saying “it’s going to change no anyway”. I haven’t heard one good reason why it should change. Saying that it’s not fair that you can be shot in hisec just because someone paid some isk isn’t a good reason.
If someone puts forward an idea that isn’t completed retarded then I might get behind it. I have supported some ideas which I think have merit and are minor enough that they might actually happen (higher wardec fees and the end of neutral logi), but to believe that CCP are going to spend time and resources on something that doesn’t make a difference to most of the game is deluded.
But I’ll ask you the same question as I’ve asked others - why does it matter so much to you? You look like a predominantly low sec player, so why get so worked up about hisec?
Oh, and Dracvlad, I still don’t see how some hisec “experience” (and I use that term incredibly lightly) 3 years ago gives you any kind of clout to your suggestions or gives any reason for you to be bothered about what happens there now. Thats like saying my time in both null and WHs makes me qualified to talk about what happens there. Hint - it doesn’t
That’s not how games work. The game has rules and one of them is that when you sign up to a player corporation then you also participate in corporate warfare.
And yes, the militia works just in the same way. There you sign up to it, too.
This is still a PvP game. And to me there was never a doubt about the fact that I could enter into a war at any time.
But I know you want to discuss changes and you don’t want me to rub the rules of the game into your face. So let’s talk changes instead.
A change should ideally not change the rules just so a few players get their way while others get theirs removed. Ideally should a change invite more people to play the game. Right?
So should you agree, then perhaps a good change would be to introduce more corporation types. We do have this in real life, too. We have a whole range of them really, non-profit, charities, limited, non-liable, whatever. Now we probably don’t want to copy those one-to-one into EVE, but perhaps there is a middle ground somewhere.
That is entirely why I am saying replace ISK with an object. Place an object in space to declare war. Nothing bigger or smaller. Give that object a benefit for the attackers beyond just being able to declare war. Give them a thing to fight around. A device you can build a trap around. A device which gives you alert that you can fight instead of our sit on our asses waiting forever and doing no fighting in war.
Thank you for citing the rules of corporation creation. All Corporations at creation have accepted that war may be declared against them by default. Now what is the risk to declare war? Try to remember you already denied yourself the ability to say that being a corporation is the risk. Try to remember that ISK isn’t risk.
Nope. Attackers have a benefit they paid for with nothing risked. They can fight specific corporation ships without Concord intervention. Concord will not help if you are winning the fight. Concord will not help if you are losing the fight. Concord will grab popcorn and a lawn chair. That’s your benefit. You wanted it. You don’t risk anything to get it.
Winning a fight or losing a fight is entirely a game mechanic that exists without Concord.
By definition, if both sides can shoot, then it’s not risk free. The only reason it’s considered to be risk free at the moment is due to the lack of motivation from defenders. That’s not the fault of the attackers.
I’m done with this now. HTFU and fight back ffs. Or shut up
No, I do accept your view of it being a “flaw”, while I myself don’t see it that way, but I can certainly take your position only for the sake of making an argument.
And all I’m saying is that everyone who is a member of a player corporation is affected in the same way by it.
Both sides can shoot with or without war. Even if defenders are motivated to fight they can be denied this ability to fight by the attacker hiding in an npc station forever waiting for their chance to shoot an easy target. In effect they are protected from war while being allowed to declare war. No risk.
All corporations have the risk that they may be declared war on. This is a default for creating a corporation. You presented this as a rule for corporation creation. That is not war though. War is declared, a benefit is gained, and nothing is risked to do it.
I object to this “their effects on players is significantly bad”.
This may be your experience. It was not mine.
“i’ve never seen them discussed in a positive light”. Let me rectify that.
When I started playing, my initial corp was a “no shooting allowed” corp. It was entirely non-violent. We were war decced, if I remember correctly 9 times, pretty much in a row. We were hunted, in one war even into nullsec (Solitude and Syndicate) by highsec war deccers. I know, I ran into a wall of Marmites in nullsec (this is not hearsay or 2nd hand) and I survived them in that encounter. (To be fair, I do not believe they were after me. I believe they were after my CEO.) Running into a wall of Marmites, reporting in our intel channel, and having 30 some odd people silently “pulling” for me to survive this encounter was one of the strongest bonding experiences I’ve had in the game.
I joined this corp during their first war dec. The CEO told me up front about the war dec and asked if I was certain I wanted to join and I said yes.
A great many of us were new players, we depended upon the older players in the corp. The experienced players ran constant locates, providing a constant stream of intel as to the whereabouts of our adversaries.
Occasionally one of us would get station camped in highsec. Shot in highsec. I remember in particular one member who got shot cause he didn’t know we were war decced even though it was in the MOTD, emailed, and talked about constantly in corp chat.
These 9 war decs made the game seem alive. I wanted to learn how the older guys knew where our war deccers were. I wanted to run locates and help keep my corpies safe. I wanted to be part of the team.
I realize you may say that was then and this is now, so as to “now”…
I started a newbie/returning player oriented corp last fall. We were war decced, by major station camping mercs. The only guys who lost ships flew through the pipes (and in one case was afk carrying his wife’s grocery bags), or flew blingy ships in mission hubs. The rest of us carried on.
So, this is my experience.
War decs in highsec made the game for me. They make the game for others as well. We just don’t start threads praising CCP for them.
I speak only for myself here, but the loss of the watch list impacted non-war deccing corps (who used it) significantly. In my opinion, more than it did war deccing corps. War deccing corps can still “hunt” even if it is more difficult. But, non-war deccing corps have no comparable tool to find intel on their hunters as it stands now. War-deccing corps, at the very least can set up spies, scouts, active intel agents prior to a war dec. A war decced corp does not have the luxury of time to do the same to their adversaries.
And that is why I want to add it back in. I want to put it as an object that has risk. You don’t need to declare war with it if you don’t want to but it’s effect is to track war targets for you. A benefit you can gain with a risk of the device itself and a cost of keeping it alive and fueled. You can use it aggressively by forcing an opponent to deal with your tracking. You can use it defensively by using it against those who have tracked you with theirs. Now it has a cost that isn’t just “I have ISK” making it so that people who don’t have hundreds of trillions of ISK CAN make it, defend it, and have a reason to fight.
When I started playing in 2009 as Dracvlad my second loss was down to a war dec in hisec, the corp involved actually targeted us and it was fun. Not so much the war decs I had later, which were in fact just area denial and very poor content. So I can just say that blanket area denial war decs are just lame content. Having seen the difference…
You actually make the point with your post, there is a difference between then and now and it is not down to the watch list but more to do with attitude.
Wars should mean something besides mass griefing people travelling through the main pipes or camping the hubs. I would like to see a limitation in open wars based on skill or other metrics. Maybe even limit it to a region and pay extra money to extend it to other regions!
Cool so you agree that locking chars with 7 day war timers is cool, I think they should have done this years ago. Stops weebs, asshats & others from gobbing of without repercussion. You let idiots in your corp then expect war decs that lock all those chars from safety for 7 days. Perfect balance.