Next step of BO

Please remove the statistical data from null sec.

Those data contain

  • player kills in last hour/day
  • NPC kills in last hour /day
  • pod kills in last hour/day
  • jumps in last hour/day
  • player in space in last hour/day

Those data are available in-game using the map, and out of game using ESI (partially) which allow to have a good guess at “where is there people I can kill ?”
This is a problem because it favors a lot the hunters by giving them free intel.

A solution would be to consider those systems as WH system when making the stats : they are all set to zero. Both in game and in ESI.


While what you are saying is valid, nothing CCP is doing has anything to do with that. It’s all about reducing botting.

It’s just gravy that it affects PVP and null life in general in a positive way. If what you are suggesting reduced bots, I’m sure it would have already been implemented.

Why do you want to reduce destruction even further?

It’s not about reducing destruction. It’s about not giving advantage one side.

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Even further? I thought Blackout increased chaos and destruction?

What would it matter? Those who cheered for Blackout already know where the juicy targets are. They don’t need a map or data to see where people do things.

Nah. There needs to be some way to find people to play with.

Maybe the hourly is too much, but certainly daily stats are reasonable. If free is the problem, I’d be fine with expanding game play around that with intel structures or ships or agents, but just deleting any ability to find targets would be damaging to activity in this game.

So -1 as proposed.

So much information is given outside the game it truly got to the point of being mandatory.

I would agree with removal of external references or being delayed by hours rather than being available nearly instantly.

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You have or at least should have the advantage as its your home system. I rarely look at those stats when I go hunting I go where ever wormhole takes me sometimes lucky half the times nothing or to big or shiny ships to take on.

They are already delayed and cached.

Still it means that if you want to have a specific activity in NS(like mining in rorquals or killing rats in a super), you need to do it below one hour otherwise people will know you are here.

IMO the solution I propose is the simplest possible, and is already applied to wormhole-space.

Yes. It is “search for people”, not “ask concord where they are”. Get a cloacky inty / T3C, go investigate to gather intelligence. Maybe even make it a job.
Maybe make it a anchorable that scans the constellation after one hour and gives a mail every hour . But definitely not “just look at PVE kills in the last hour”.

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Eh, I suppose both sides have their own advantages and disadvantages.

As the hunter, you have a very basic knowledge of where you’d be able to find some preys. But even this hunting tactic cannot entirely be relied on, so you still have to actually go there and see if there’s really someone to shoot, or if you were leased by outdated data from the beginning.

As the hunted, you don’t really know if you’re being targeted by someone or not until your intel report them. You still have the home ground advantage, with multiple ships nearby reading to jump on you and save you if you’re using something that can withstand fire long enough for your allies to form up.

This would also mean that the more targets can be found in one area, the more defenders can come, which put some pressure on the hunter when he try to use the data he can collect from ESI websites and the in game star map.

Have you actually tried doing this? Nullsec systems are huge and often empty, you’re going to have to spend a ton of time warping around checking possible locations to have even a chance of finding someone. And it’s all tedious zero-risk work that isn’t enjoyable for either side.

The map system, on the other hand, works very well and has a nice balance between the sides because of the delay in updating. The PvE player can’t use it for realtime information on a potential threat’s existence and immediately dock as soon as they enter the system, but does get to have a general picture of where the dangerous systems are and make an informed decision about where to set up their operation. The PvP hunter can’t use it to pin down the exact location of a player (or group of players) who spreads out their PvE activity across multiple systems or only does it for short durations, but does get to have a general picture of what areas even have the possibility of an encounter and focus their search.

Problem is, that 99.9% of null krabs is crying because they need move some of mining/ratting alts to gates to have intel. While even outdated data from ESI is some intel with zero cost to hunter.

Maybe we will see return of scout profession?

Yes, I’ve scouted a bit, in LS and NS too. Using fast ships, even sometimes with hyperspatials. It’s the price of scouting when you want to roam. Your +5 will die because of bubbles, gatecamps, etc.
And then because you want to whale you don’t have to do that anymore ? Makes no sense.

It does not. It provides free intel only to one side, which is the opposite of balanced.

That’s because they are doing it … The map is not providing them ANY data they don’t have access to already. It’s like everybody received a notification that you are walking when you start walking. “Just so you know, you are walking. But it’s okay because you received that notification too”.
Next step, whenever someone in Eve takes a gate or a JB, everybody in eve receives that notification. #balanced

Actually, yes : their activity is spread out in several systems, so each of those systems can be used. There is no need to pinpoint them, whatever you meant by this word.

I don’t see the problem here. Krabs actually have to take in account that their in zero security space, and if they want to live in peace they have to predict whoever and whatever can come after them.

And it’s actually nice, less people mining mean less minerals flooding the market.

Not in last years. Near2 and intel channels warn them that from x systems away enemy is coming so they can safely dock. Now they don’t have that safest space in new eden. If we are changing null, let’s change it something balanced this time. If defenders now don’t have any informations in game (they need to use own scouts) where are hunters. We need to also not give informations on silver platter to hunters. No matter how rough and inaccurate that data is.

TBH, I don’t think it would meaningfully reduce destruction much. Your high-intensity krabbing systems are mostly obvious just based on geography and true-sec, and the nature of sov indexes and ihub upgrades means that they don’t tend to change. Once you find the krabbing spots, you’ve found them. They’re not going to move to a completely different, wholly un-upgraded pipe system tomorrow.

Removing the map intel would mostly just eliminate it as a sticking point for nullbear whinging (“omg it’s so unfair I don’t have local but they have FREE MAP INTEL!”).

Fair’s fair, though - no more map intel for there’s-probably-a-gatecamp-here, either.

Well, tbh I think what Anderson is suggesting has merit. If you take the statistics that indicate activity out it would coincide with no local from a rp view. On top of that, it would bring more content as well with even more uncertainty imo from my point of view. As it stands now with map statistics showing clear as day who is doing what where its like putting your “head in a noose”, or guillotine so to speak.

Not sure why those statistics were not taken out when BO was launched in the first place. What can it hurt? Number of users online are not at 50k atm. Might bring more content to null than whats going on now?

Or ratters to see what are the systems with the least number of players.

Seems pointless “tit for tat”.


WTF are you going on about here? The issue is not risk of losing your +5s or whatever, it’s the sheer tedious nonsense of having to check empty system after empty system after empty system after empty system. The players in space count allows you to narrow down the search area to places where encounters with other players might actually happen. But it doesn’t give accurate real-time intel on just who exactly those players are, where in the system they are, what they are flying, etc, so you’re still encouraged to use (and risk) scouts.

It does not. It provides free intel only to one side, which is the opposite of balanced.

Lolwut. I just explained how it provides intel for both sides, and you dare to claim that it doesn’t? The PvE player absolutely gains intel from it. Players in space tells them which systems need to be scouted for gatecamps (or other PvP activity) before entering, ships destroyed tells them which systems have recent PvP activity and PvP threats that might still be lurking to wait for more targets.

You seem to be starting from the premise that things aren’t currently balanced, and the fact that overpowered defensive intel (which was heavily abused by bots and bot-like players) was nerfed means that every other intel source needs a nerf as well so that the farmers retain a relative advantage. This is an utterly terrible idea.