Next Summit Brainstorm - Ship Balance


(Luigi mon-de-sound) #42

How does adding a mid slot to the nighthawk reduce tank? If anything it will allow for more application or tank. Sure removing a mlow will be a slight decrease in dps, but application on Hams and HML is worth more than paper dps stats.

You said it yourself

And im not sure you even considered any of the slave set , 7-10 implants, and titan phenomenon generators. If you think that both Amarr CS being able to out tank/dps their Caldari counterparts BEFORE adding implants, titans, and WH effects is balanced, then i want what your drinking.

Both Gallente CS and the damnation have 4 mids, which means that not only can they fit the prop mod, cap booster and web/scram. You also got 4-6 lows for dank tank, plus the damnation gets the add 10% to armor hp per lvl which allows it to out shine any buffer tank NK.

The Vulture dosent need the 10% shield hp per lol as its more of a sniper where the NightHawk is more of a brawler/mid range ship

Slight change to HK
+1 mid
-1 low
New - 10% to shield hp per command ship level
+125pwg
Add a application bonus for Hams and HML
Increase ship velocity


(Max Deveron) #43

Faction Battleships…
A lot of people complain about the price…

Maybe look at the LP stores and revamp the cost to lower numbers…
In fact i think the whole LP system should be looked at,

Faction Ships should be increased/decreased in LP cost (not the isk or other reqs) dependent ontheir individual useage/supply overall.

Faction modules, quite a few of them should probably get increased LP costs (considering the number of courier bots that plague the game)


(elitatwo) #44

Tanking is not only consisting of how many shield extenders or armor plates you slam on a ship.

Yes and those values are only possible with a HG slave set but I didn’t have the Gallente phenom generator available for maximum values.

I don’t know what “NK” is supposed to mean?

However, if you can look at ALL the values on the fitting screen other than the dps value and compare those to a tech one hulls, you could see that some modules are not required at all.

Maybe but the Vulture happens to be the long range one, just like the Damnation is. Can you see the correlation or do I have to make a picture for you?

Which is awesome the way she is. That’s why I am not opposed to speed and agility buff.

In case you were wondering, my fellow readers, if you can stop fitting 80457238904628905627945 neutralizers on all ships with a drone that aren’t a Curse, Pilgrim, Armageddon , trollgorn or ashimmu and read the … traits tab before you fit a ship (wrong in 99.99999% of all cases) then you could see that an active tank Nighthawk is already a beast when you don’t fit 904805789025925 neutralizers on her.

You know the most overpowered modules in the game that neutralizes all ships and you need to neutralizer everything so you can win because without neutralizer you cannot win ever.


(Stitch Kaneland) #45

There are several issues with faction battleship pricing. But you can’t look at them in a vacuum.

  1. Due to the farming of pirate battleship BPC’s, pirate battleship cost has plunged by at least 60% since i’ve been playing EVE. I remember when pirate BS were 900m-1.1b. With the constant farming of escalations and DED’s, we have pirate battleships that are only 225m (Bhaalgorn)! With many others not far behind

This has caused a price disparity to occur between Navy Battleship and Pirate battleships. As if you have to choose between 1 or the other, you’re most likely going to choose pirate as you get stronger bonuses and EHP values. Such as, why fly a navy mega when you can fly a vindi for the same cost?

  1. Lets say pirate battleships are 900m, does that mean you’ll suddenly start seeing navy geddons flying around everywhere? No. Because the Navy Geddon, among many other navy battleships just aren’t that great, or have a lot of potential but are restricted due to fitting or slot layout. So, they need to actually be desirable and get a full rebalance

  2. The final piece is indeed LP. In combination with pirate battleships BPC’s becoming scarcer (see my post above that explains this more in detail), the LP cost should be reduced by 50-100k LP to make the barrier of entry a little cheaper. This way navy battleships would slot in around 300-400m and pirate would be 600-900m, which is a much better spread compared to what we have now.


(Makshima Shogo) #46

Stabber Fleet Issue

-1 turret
+10% Damage
+10% Tracking

The T1 Stabber is amazing due to its 2 utility high slot’s but the stabber fleet is just a much worse version atm it badly needs a utility high and some fitting especially power grid, Don’t mind going from 6.2 effective turrets to 6 effective turrets by loosing the 1 turret slot so that it can have slightly more alpha and the utility high.

Combat Interceptors

Combat Int’s have no roll atm so the idea is to make them anti drone support ship’s.

Idea originated from this thread Combat Ceptors need a bit of a Buff

An alternative for roll bonus could be to make combat interceptor’s act as mobile cyno inhibitor’s, or to make fleet mate’s warping to the combat inti align and warp faster on grid.

Removed:
Interdiction nullification

Replaced with:
+1% extra sig reduction during mwd (80% at V compared to 75% at V for fleet inti’s)
+10% to base velocity + more weight to reduce MWD to same as before. (slightly faster in afterburner same in MWD)
+Cap Balance (Compare the T1 counter part’s to inti’s, T1 has much better cap! conder’s 150s/300GJ to raptor 266.25s/355GJ)
+Fitting Balance (T1 also has much better fittings than inti’s)

Bonus’s changed to include tracking because of the roll.

3 Mid’s Minimum for Dual prop and some power grid to compensate.

Removed:
80% reduction to propulsion jamming system activation cost

Replaced with:
200% damage against drone’s and 500% damage against fighters/bombers. (Roll bonus)

Raptor

+11 CPU
+2 PG

16% reduction in MWD sig radius
+10% tracking speed (Replaced 4% shield Resi)

5% Hybrid Damage
10% Hybrid Optimal Range

Roll Bonus: 200% damage to drone’s and 500% damage to fighters/bombers.

Crusader

+20 CPU
+1.2 PG
+1mid -1low (For Dual prop)

16% reduction in MWD sig radius
10% tracking speed (replaced 7.5% tracking speed)

5 or 10% optimal Range

Is there anyone in the world that likes cap reduction from guns :confused: very annoying bonus. It’s going to need the range instead of ROF to hit drones more often as they are always moving in and out of range.

5% energy turret Damage.

Roll Bonus: 200% damage to drone’s and 500% damage to fighters/bombers.

Taranis

+5 Cpu

16% reduction in MWD sig radius
10% tracking speed (replaced 7.5% tracking speed)

10% Damage
5% Optimal Range ( Instead of the 2 drones )

Claw

-1 low +1 mid (for dual prop)
+14 CPU

16% reduction in MWD sig radius
5% Damage

5% ROF
10% Tracking (from 7.5% tracking)

Using these change’s the inti’s will all sit pretty close on damage around 200 for close range (Taranis / Crusader slightly higher with less tank) and dual prop + some speed and sig reduction will let them be useful again.

Warp Speed In General

Roaming takes a really long time and a lot of this has to do with warp speeds, it would be a really nice Quality of life update if all warp speeds got a decent boost.

My suggestion for base speeds would be:

Frigate: 7 AU/s
Desi: 6 AU/s
Cruiser 5 AU/s
BC 4.5 AU/s
BS 4 AU/s

Navi + Pirate Warp speed increase 15%
T2 Warp speed increase 25%
Interdictor Warp speed increase 30%
Angel Warp speed increase 50%
Interceptor warp speed increase 60%

The align time that the bigger ships have will be enough to catch them but the warp speeds will keep the bigger ships fun to fly. :]


(Quinlin Harpy) #47

Make the armageddon navy issue fall into line with the aug navy issue, having 2 util highs (VNI is the only other that has this capability in navy cruisers iirc). This means scrapping what it is now and changing to something like this:

Amarr Battleship Bonuses (Per Skill Level):
7.5% Bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level
7.5% Bonus to Armor Hitpoints per level


-1 Turret Hardpoint


Reduce base Armor Hitpoints as the 7.5% bonus per level would increase this past the current base anyways, make it like 30% more HP than current base with amarr bs V


Replace RoF bonus with Damage bonus - RoF is ■■■■ on lasers because cap need, damage is better overall anyways as the alpha on megapulses is suprisingly good.


Tweak it in some other places ofc to make it more balanced.

But in general it gives it two util highs like the Tempest FI, more reliable damage, less cap pressure from the guns, armor bonus offers something unique to the BS lineup, and its more flexible in general.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #48

This please
Regarding warp speed


(Residium Fall) #49

Ship: Prospect
Why: Its a T2 (specialised!?) frigate bonused for Covops Gas mining. Gets two turret hardpoints for the huffers, a cloak and also needs Probes to find gas. Somehow this has to fit into 3 highs.

It’s like having a Stealth Bomber that needs to carry a depot to fit its cloak. Know it’s not glamourous pew stuff but it is nevertheless really weird.

EDIT: Forgot the suggestion. Reduce the turret hardpoints to one and compensate through the role bonus. It has various other uses (Ore Miner, hero cyno/tackler, ECCM stacked mission runner) that wouldn’t be buffed with this change but would break if fiddling with either the mids or the lows.


(Sasha Viderzei) #50

Actually, the Prospect isn’t fully engineered toward gas huffing, but more of a dual job : ore and gas, like the Endurance is specialized for ice and ore. I do understand that doing everything without the need of a Mobile Depot is a plus, but the MD is probably the explorer best friend…

And the Prospect doesn’t have any bonus to scanning down signatures, so a probe launcher is not mandatory.


(Makshima Shogo) #51

Just use 1 gas huffer + probe + cloak xD problem solved lol…


(Sasha Viderzei) #52

Oh woah, and he’ll lose only 50% of his yield ! Brightest idea of the lot I say here gentlemen.


(Makshima Shogo) #53

Yea only 50% loss its not that much can just mine for 40 days instead of 20, the efficiency ahh so refreshing. On a serious note thou most gas sites worth mining( Instrumental / Vital) take so quick to run compared to scanning down the next, that it might actually work out in some strange way lol…


(Sasha Viderzei) #54

If there was an offer to get something 50% off in one of my favourite store, without collateral, I’d take it ^^


(Arushia) #56

Guristas ships (Worm/Gila/Rattlesnake):

Consider reducing or removing the drone HP bonus, it removes what should be a weakness of drone ships; that drones are easily destroyed.


(Terak Romaller) #57

Based on forum responses the Gila probably needs reducing its effectiveness at mission running to encourage a wider range of ships being tried.

I’m not familiar with how Gilas get used in fleet/PvP situations - if indeed they get significant usage there - so couldn’t make a definite proposal.

Maybe a reduction in drone control range to increase the need to actively manage incoming DPS from NPCs?


(Sasha Viderzei) #58

I do agree that Gila and Rattlesnake need a well deserved rework. The only PVE occupation where you don’t get either the cruiser or the battleship thrown at your face when you ask for a ship are Incursions.

It’s just idiotic, that it’s one ship or nothing. Try to find someone giving you some advices for T3 abyss sites and above without someone mentioning the Gila !


(Terak Romaller) #59

Exactly my issue - you get a new player and they ask here not unreasonably “I’m struggling, what’s a good ship for missions?” and the answer is Gila. They look at the market and the suggested skills and think “it’s going to take me a lot of grinding and time for that, I’ll just go and play something else instead”.

I remember being poor and saving up for my first 10m ISK cruiser (an Arbitrator) and if I had been told you needed 250m ISK to do Level 2 missions then I’d’ve been somewhat more discouraged. In our relative wealth we forget how a new player looks at the world and how often they face “can’t afford that”.
And then we tell 'em “buy an expensive ship and go grind rats in null - you are playing this wrong” as if there are no other alternatives.

End of Rant.


(Sasha Viderzei) #60

This. This is what I had with my mission alt in Amarr. A ■■■■ simply telling me to go straight to Gila, and then simply told me that I was an idiot because I was an Amarr character and wanted to focus my skills on energy turrets, and neither drones or missiles.

Now just imagine a total newbro being told that. Way to lose what the game need the most : new faces.


(Luigi mon-de-sound) #61

Its not much of a problem with its drone bonus, its a problem with how rat aggro works. Making rats target drones and fighter will solve a nice chunk of afk/bottting issues and cause players to diversify in my opinion.

I mean there’s a reason why you dread rat in c5/6 instead of carriers.


(Arushia) #62

Making rats aggro drones more often would only increase the Gila’s supremacy because of its huge drone HP bonus.