@CCP_Bartender, Nice to hear that, which are a bright spot atm. I have today my launcher scripts updated so she can handle now the problem, that after an restart of a updated/changed launcher he hangs again while the updater cleaned up the launcher directory from foreign files or links (which are ok and he should always do that). If you want to use my stuff, you are welcome. See the thread EVE Installing where i have posted links for my downloads and my website.
I’ll be looking at updating the wine version once I’ve got the current launcher building. A casual look suggests that the mac and linux wine builds are currently linked by a common repo (https://github.com/ccpgames/wine) which I know essentially nothing about at the moment.
I’d be keen to know what peoples experiences with DX11 under wine 3+ are, I’ve been sticking to dx9 mode myself. Stable? Artifact free? Not yet? Specific versions of wine that seem to work better than others?
I’m using DX11 mode since Wine version 3.0 and it is stable on my hardware so far (using Nvidia GTX 750 TI with driver version 390.77 stable branch). If you use the DX11 mode over OpenGL, which are the default setting in wine you have as penalty a lower frame rate than in DX9 mode but better visual effects like you have, when you run EVE on Windows.
Steam uses for her beta version from Steam Play a customized version of Wine 3.7 so should the CCP git version wine 3.10 do the same job as well. As an afterburner for the DX11 mode uses many of us DXVK which the Steam Play beta has already included.
Its not a must but it is preferable, because the using from DXVK with EVE in DX11 mode gives higher frame rates, lower power consumption and you can more graphics settings like in WIndows using with it. Disadvantages are for me atm i have little artifacts on the HUD outside of the Stations if i use DXVK, but i can live with that.
@Whitehound has more experience with this problematic he uses the last Nvidia beta drivers which should not have these artifacts anymore, but its beta. Besides if you use the linux launcher or windows launcher which he does, both uses in the end wine to run EVE himself.
Early WINE 3 version had issues with anti-aliasing under DirectX11 over OpenGL. They showed a black screen when it was turned on. This later turned into a working GUI, but with the 3D graphics still black, and latest version I’ve tried is 3.15 and AA is working correctly now.
But if you’re really looking at DirectX11 then do look at DXVK, too, or else you’re already behind before you even started.
And to be quite frank, if you’re not going to make the Linux launcher open source then you might just drop it altogether and focus on getting EVE to run smoothly with Steam Play / Proton, because this seems to be the future for gaming on Linux in the near future. People can already install Steam on their Linux boxes and from there it’s pretty easy to get EVE running with DirectX11 at high frame rates, because Steam is using DXVK and a couple other patches to bring the speed up. To pack the EVE Linux launcher with a version of WINE is what Steam has now done with Steam Play / Proton and you’d be copying them at best.
Hrm, DXVK is going to increase the minimum system requirements to mandate cards which support vulkan though, right?
Is DXVK a more faithful implementation of directx in terms of the final visuals, or just faster?
My preference would be to keep the default wine as compatible as possible, and let people make their own computer specific setups for higher performance, unless the non DXVK performance is going to be too poor to use, or unless non-DXVK implementations look broken.
Speed of DirectX11 over Vulkan is almost twice as fast when compared to OpenGL and the power consumption is a lot lower, too.
The author is being payed by Valve Software. So this is likely the more faithful implementation, probably the best you could ever hope for. I don’t like how it’s a set of DLLs and that it wasn’t put directly into WINE, but this is just how it is now.
DirectX12 is also being worked on for WINE and while it, too, gets rendered over Vulkan, is it a part of WINE’s source code unlike DXVK. There is no DirectX12 over OpenGL implementation from what I’ve seen and don’t think anyone would want this. Vulkan then is available for Nvidia and AMD as well as Intel on-board graphics.
There is Vulkan for Android, which lets players run WINE on their mobile phone and means they could play EVE Online on their phones.
The system requirements don’t increase necessarily. You’d still have to use WINE, which means you’ll also be able to run with DirectX9 and X11 over OpenGL. Only Vulkan is the way forward and what people will want, but it’s not somehow exclusive. It would be an optional feature to have with OpenGL always being available as fallback.
Your problem will be that when you don’t add DXVK straight to it, then why should people use it when they can just get it all over Steam and all inclusive? With Steam you get EVE news and special EVE offers, you can play other games with it, and so forth. With Steam do players get to use the Windows launcher and they can be certain not to be using any software that is somehow different from the Windows version. It’ll be difficult to see an advantage in using a Linux-native launcher over Steam when it isn’t at least on par with the Steam performance.
I would prefer using the CCP git version 3.10 as first test without any changes, which Valve has done, as long the CCP version are not changed in any cases from the WineHQ version. If the user has the choice to select the used wine version it should be a good start for this. If the user want to using DXVK so he can install it later with winetricks.
But you get it only, when you have always a Steam account. The advantage from a linux launcher is in this case, he dont need an installed Steam. Sure you can use the windows launcher with a pure wine, but why not a linux launcher also? So please, let CCP or in this case @CCP_Bartender decide, what to do or not.
True, and Steam may not work on every distro either, but the point is still this: why go the effort in making a Linux-native launcher, which is already an effort made for a minority of players, and then further reduce the chances of it being used?
And stop with the begging. He’ll decide on his own just fine.
I then want to be sure that he knows his options, because even when his efforts are not officially supported by CCP should these not end up in something painful or comical, but that it can live up to everyone’s expectations.
Only this isn’t the Muppet show. While you may be happy with patching an outdated piece of software will CCP Bartender have different goals in mind. Whatever his goals are will these not be mediocre or just an attempt at it. I’m sure he wants to give us the best possible option. He is only getting started and is trying to get his feet down. So let’s help him and not act like we’re all humbled by his attention and too shy to say what we want. The opposition then isn’t me, but it’s CCP’s own launcher for Windows and the recent advances by Steam.
When I can have the Windows launcher on Linux, which tells me about current events and even when there are problems like the DDoS attacks, then I just have no reason to want anything less. It explains itself.
If we’re going to talk about bringing back the Linux-native launcher then it needs to have a reason for it to come back or it’s just not worth having it. When you there do not want to talk about it, and rather want to talk about me and tell me what I should and shouldn’t say, then you’re only admitting to me that I’m right.
So how about we try to get this right and you stop with the nonsense and start talking about what you really want for EVE, Linux and yourself? You think you can do this?
I see three options:
Abandon the Linux version, focus efforts on the Windows version and improve integration with Steam.
Open-source the Linux version, allow for players to develop their own launchers including ports to Windows, which has a good chance to completely transform it and to the joy and benefit of all players.
Revive the Linux launcher, improve on old issues, find new goals for it and for using it’s own WINE version.
I’m pointing out where one can find Vulkan these days since CCP Bartender has concerns regarding system requirements. x86-emulation for ARM is being worked on, but I don’t know how well it works. Point is that with Vulkan the game could be played on mobile phones, which is something CCP has or had an interest in.
This is for Windows 10 on ARM, which reads like it’s well on its way. With Linux would one have to use QEMU and see how well it works.