Nope, they are needed as any other. But CCP not ready to change game enough to preserve such players. You know, like they not removing suicide ganking or scamming.
Thats not a logical angle of reply.
We arent talking about those things, and you are making a sweeping generalisation.
You are talking about players who canāt play without ability to shoot clueless carebears in highsec. Itās same as players who canāt play because they are ganked or scammed. Both donāt agree with game rules and have to leave.
Thatās your assumption. You cannot definatively say that is the case across the board. You are also suggesting the very healthy mercenary industry that served PvE corps in wars were anti-social players too.
I can definatively say, and you agree, that there are people who left the game rather than learn how to evade war targets.
So apart from the fact you feel that anyone who war decs anyone is anti-scial, or lame, or bad or whatever emotive you wanna hang on it, why should the needs of one type of player who quits come above another?
And if its majority money talks, then why is a compromise that keeps both not something that CCP wanted to pursue?
You are saying, what there is people who leave the game because wardec changes. Wardecs was very one-sided and almost devoid of actual pvp before changes, so they are now. What exactly changed, outside of lost ability to shoot clueless carebears?
I know for sure there is players who still engaged in high-sec pvp and enjoying mercenary gameplay.
You tell me, because whatever it was saved your precious quitters.
Look if we are going to go down a line of emotive reasoning, we can, itll just end up in flames, and you are well aware of that. So are we talking about actual people for whom a middle ground is not only possible, but directly ignored, or are we just going to do the dance of Griefers vs Quitters?
Cos if so we arent going anywhere, because I cant sympathise with people who quit something because it was hard to do. No matter what side of the line on this debate they fall on, btw.
No āmyā quitters. It was CCP problem and they solved it, or at least they attempted to do so. You are telling me what people who cannot adapt to some ruleset are not worth keepeng, if we talk about carebears. At the same time, people who donāt want to adapt to war changes somehow better than carebears and so must be preserved.
Nope, literally not what Im saying. You are just saying what youd like me to have written. So I think we arenāt going any further on this.
I like your idea about toxic asteroid clouds though. Next time it and exploding ice come up, we shopuld compare notes.
So what is it? Did they or did they not solve it? You keep telling us that they did, then you tell us that maybe they didnāt, and it gets very confusing.
Do you genuinely not understand the difference between āadapting to changesā and āadapting to the complete removal of a featureā?
If CCP makes it so that only a tiny fraction of the previously-viable war targets are war eligible now, thatās not something you can adapt to. Adaptation implies that you can somehow manipulate the situation to still get similar results that you could in the past.
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I would like CCP publishing data to confirm or refute, what this changes improved player retention. Iām myself donāt have enough information, so, like any sensible person, I have my doubts.
War targets isnāt only avallable targets for PvP, players who really want to pew-pew easily find some. Players who want to shoot clueless carebears only have some issues, but even then, some of them adapted and killing easy targets from 0.0 blocks.
This I think is a point we can all agree on, ergo, we dont have enough information to determine for ourselves if NPC Corp Tax should be removed and if so what the outcome would be.
This isnāt something they can quantify unless they create surveys to specifically address this question. CCP doesnāt have magic data that tells them the reason behind every player quitting.
This is misleading. Since this has always been the case, this doesnāt qualify as āadaptation.ā Kind of like saying youāve been eating apples and oranges, and after oranges were no longer available, you adapted by continuing to eat apples.
CCP already established, what players who join other players corps stay in the game longer. From this point of view NPC corp tax is fine and reasonable thing to have. Other than that NPC corp taxes lost meaning and become obsolete.
Iām against adding taxes to non-wardeccable corporations.
OK, so you want to argue whether I agree with you or not.
Enjoy the thread.
It is absolutely sensible thing. If one was eating apples and oranges and for some reason lost access to oranges, he just eat more apples. Or lose all his teeth because of scurvy.
Youāre just being obtuse on purpose right now. You know that not doing something because itās no longer possible to be done, and just continuing to do the things youāve been doing which are still possible to do, isnāt adaptation, but resignation. Adaptation implies that some kind of alternative is sought out, which isnāt the case here at all.
If CCP turns off wars entirely, are you going to say that players who did wars āadaptedā by not doing wars?
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You do get that incursions are not high sec exclusive right? And with only a single high sec focus any jump in incursion earning is almost certainly not a high sec income jump
So, about day 1 of EVE then.
Wars have always been easy to dodge, what CCP removed was the irrelevant make work around that.
Wardecers getting bored are victims of their own actions in over fishing.
Itās almost like you are utterly ignoring all the other changes in both the game and in life, and the other possibilities that people just eventually get tired of EVEās simple combat and gameplay. You make a nice snide pass at casual mobile gaming, but many mobile games are actually more complex in combat mechanics than EVE is.
Eh, to be fair, some tax on them wouldnāt be a bad thing. It needs to be lower than NPC corp tax in order to encourage joining player groups, but it would nicely graduate risk/reward options.
It doesnāt need to be at punitive levels though like āsomeā people keep trying to make happen, a few percent is enough to provide that graduation while still being attractive compared to an NPC corp.
Which is a point he refused to concede. The only basis of disagreement with him. I dont see what issue you have with this, but sure ok, why not.
Because you were saying that wardeccers left because CCP changed it so wars were easy to avoid.
This statement of yours implies that there was ever a time when wardecs matter. If anything right now is when the most is at risk in a wardec.
No, I made it directly clear that there was a time in the past when there were more mercenaries, who used the wardec system. Then it changed, and there are now less.
If you have better data than my admittedly vague recollection of 2009-2014 or so, Im perfectly willing to change my mind.
And also, the person I was replying to had stated people used to leave because of wardecs. Then something changed, so what was it? That was myquestion to him.
Are you saying that there was no change and his assertion is incorrect? Because Im happy with that too.