Odd market behaviour in Omber trading

Some week ago I posted a topic about some weird market behavior with Omber species on the market, but was not really constructive indeed.
Also I am not going to directly point towards bots since that will also leads to nowhere :grin:
(Also sorry for double post otherwise my memes would mess up the main picture in a slideshow which would limit the correct zoom)

Anyway, what I show here is pretty weird and maybe someone is able to explain it what is really going on, I hope so tho.
What you see here is like to me something which makes no sense at all.
So I am assuming these are human players involving into market pvp(?) shown below here in the picture.(you have to click on the picture and than another time for original size)

Shown at the breakdown of the market activity of these 3 objects it makes me question.
It is not like for example they don’t want to pay more than 8.027 isk for Golden omber which is worth 12.200 ISK compared to the 11.103 ISK basic Omber
What my experience is with these people is that they have all time to market pvp with me when I add orders, if I put a 9000 ISK buy order for golden omber they will pvp me, it’s not like they don’t want to pay 9000.01 ISK and that’s why the price is 8.027.
But they* have no time to respond with common sense on the market (*most)

(splitted post)

bother


.

Also I will now expose and reveal it now (click spoiler arrow below)

Summary

CI

Anyway what are you thoughts on this odd activity.

(on sales page of Golden omber and Silver omber there is actually more than counted on the list but I didn’t saved a picture of the whole one)

  1. Your memes aren’t funny.
  2. Please try to improve your sentence structure.
  3. Put your images on imgur.com and link to them. Even after clicking on them, they’re still too small.

Maybe this is really bad that I’m doing this but what is your view on the market values shown in the picture with number breakdown?

Did you do something like this before looks familiar?

If you want a discussion, you need to clearly state what you observed in few crisp sentences. I can only guess that you mean is the discrepancy in price of compressed ores of different qualities which do not match the actual value, e.g. having plain ores more expensive than other flavors in regards of mineral content.

It’s okay tho, I’m just showing the values are a bit out of place.
It’s just till this day none has been able to give the sensible reason for this odd market values.
In my personal opinion this is the work of bot behavior taking place, there is none or minimal human interaction taking place in market activity with common sense.
Although I’m unable to proof this yes, and maybe is not even true.
So I will keep it as realistic as possible by humans doing odd stuff on the market I can’t get my head around.
But on the other side, when looking at eve bot forums and looking at the support and issue section none seem to complain about being banned, but let’s keep it there.
I know there are bots on eve online, everyone knows that, but are they also heavenly present in lets say Omber trade on the market, difficult to prove.
Also don’t feel like you have to reply to this yo.

In the meantime I have to accept with people trying (it works) to derail this thread by going off topic purposely, or it’s just autism which urge them to do that kind of stuff :alien::+1:

It is not like for example they don’t want to pay more than 8.027 isk for Golden omber which is worth 12.200 ISK compared to the 11.103 ISK basic Omber

Basic Omber is used for storyline missions - in regions where Omber is not easily available (i.e. Amarr)

I am no industrial master, but could it be your region is becoming saturated?

I am a salvage and wormhole person. I have found the prices of salvage often fluctuates a few ISK in Rens, but can vary wildly in Jita or Hek.

If you are looking at one market then you are not getting a complete picture of the market value as a whole.

I explained this the last time you posted something like this, but i’ll explain it again. its a matter of volume, you seem to understand that volume has some impact on things, but apparently miss the importance of it.

regular omber has nearly double the moving volume as golden omber, which means that any order i’m trying to fill, particularly very large ones, is going to fill almost twice as fast. when you are doing large scale industry, volume is everything. Isogen is important for manufacturing, but makes up a comparatively small% of the total item cost, omber is still one of the most cost effective places to get it from though.

so since volume is everything, I need orders to fill fast, which means i’m going to set up buy orders for whichever ore will fill the fastest. and I would be willing to pay extra for those orders to fill in the quantities I need. because having my production lines grind to a halt while waiting for orders to fill. will cost me more isk than I’d spend on the higher priced ore, since that particular ore only makes up a small percentage of my total build cost.

1 Like

What you said was this about it

How does that apply to the numbers of market activity I have shown in the picture? Silver omber only -17% in market activity compared to value of basic omber for example. (shown in first picture)
I can’t see any industrial with a healthy mind paying 22% extra on billion Iskies deals just because of an extra hour, or they like to throw money away.

I understand what you are saying but stated your argument was based on waiting weeks or even months extra, if you can adjust it to -42% and -17% in market activity (speaking of values) I can maybe take it seriously if it does make sense.

Also you can fill like half of all the buy orders from basic omber from all the sell orders from golden omber and silver omber and even get a discount that way, I’m just saying there are no human eyes on the market, or I have no idea what they are doing with updating their prices and placing new orders just to market pvp.

Well I hope so cuz that would explain a lot

yes, you could fill half from basic and the rest from better ores, and they MIGHT fill in the time frame you want. but they might not, so most industrialists will fill their entire order with what they KNOW is the most likely to fill, even if that costs more. as I said, probably orders are also being put up on the better ores as well, but they are not being relied upon.

a few hours or even a day longer might not matter much if you are in HS. but if you are out in null that delay can mean either delaying the JF run, or having to wait until the next one, which adds even more time.

remember what I said about isogen, and therefor omber making up a fairly small, but important component of manufacturing?
if i’m doing a billion isk build, the isogen might only make up 10% of the total build price, i might not be willing to pay an extra 22% of a billion isk. but I will gladly pay 22% of 10% of my build if it means keeping the lines running and getting that ship out 2-3 days early.

might not seem like much in the short term, but in the long term even 1 wasted day can add up to entire missed runs in a year, those missed runs is lost profit. more lost profit than the slightly higher price on a minor component balances out.

How do you mean that exactly

what is shown here is 3 kinds of the of the same ore type but 2 of them have a higher value because they give more of the same, the 0% the +5% and the +10%.
So one is 100% and one is 105% and the other one is 110%, And I’m wondering why people want to pay more for the 100% one, even while they can get the 105% and 110% cheaper and is more worth.

@Bjorn_Tyrson

Is that the reason why it is like that or is it a theory?

it is one of the primary forces behind the demand, higher demand = higher prices. and so long as the industrialists are willing to pay those higher prices, and calculate them into their profit margins, then that discrepancy will exist. which any good industrialist will be doing.

I always calculate my profit margins based on what will fill the fastest regardless of the price, not on what minmaxes those profit margins, because that way, anything that I can fill from the better ores is just a bonus, not what i’m relying on.

The saying for what you are doing is called “penny wise but pound foolish” you are sacrificing productivity which will cost you money on the large scale, in order to save a tiny bit of money in the short term.

So what you are saying is because people don’t want to delay the JF and that is why?
Also you’re an industrial right, but it seems out of expierence you are planning all your industry input at the very last moment.

no, I am planning it out on the long term, and recognizing that I may not have the liquid isk in order to invest in a years worth of manufacturing at one time because I diversify my manufacturing.

lets say, hypothetically i’m doing a billion isk build, that build will take me 10 days to complete, I will earn 200mil from each run that I do.
now lets say that omber makes up 1/10th of my total material requirements (in reality its far less, but easy numbers) so of that billion, 100 million is being spent on omber.
now if I can save 22% on omber by going with the better yield ores, but its going to take an extra day to fill that order. then I have saved 22 million, increasing profits to 220mil per 6 day run. seems all well and good right?

well lets extrapolate that out to a year.
365/5 = 73 runs * 200mil per = 14,600,000,000
vs
365/6 = ~61 runs * 220mil = 13,420,000,000

so by saving 22% per run, at the cost of keeping those lines moving, I have in fact cost myself over a billion isk over the year.

if I can buy those ores on the side, then great, bonus, but i’m not going to be relying on those when I know that the base ore will fill faster and meet my demands. even if it costs more.

Supply and demand. If a market becomes saturated with something the supply is FAR higher than demand, thus the prices bottom out or stabilize at a lower than normal value.

This is what I mean by saturated.

I know in Jita you can get somethings for pennies but in Hek those same things will cost you 100% than market value for the same item.

Omber is crap, you should feel bad for even looking it up. 25% less mineral value than even veldspar.

1 Like

I’m not sure if you’re some kind of spin doctor but I would hire you :ccpguard:

  1. First you tell the reason for this is waiting at least an 1 extra week, (you said week(s) to even months) if you said people don’t want to wait a few extra hours I found you a cool bro.
  2. Than I showed it’s prob just more in terms of hours or maybe even a day, and suddenly that becomes a problem and it is because of the JF or… is it your personal industry infrastructure which hold eve in it’s grip.
  3. Than I showed you you could get it instantly at large discount like half quantities of the buyers from Gold and Silver, and suddenly that becomes a problem 2 because that doesn’t work out with their planning mode.
  4. Than I ask you if it’s just theories you come up with or is fact and you state it is all fact (like you know more but doesn’t want to say it just yet)

What would be next? or do you think we got it mapped all now?
I know you come up with another wall of text finely detailed about it, but please if it’s possible could you include this a small part to it; When you google market bots for eve and navigate the forums of bot providers none in the support sections seems to be complaining about getting banned or have been banned.
But on the other hand people are getting non stop support on the forum how to set up the bot correctly for those who do not understand it yet setting it up.