Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

When did CONCORD voice an opinion about what is courteous?

When they removed my post asking the kybernauts to post their stuff in their own threads.

They only removed that post because it was a reply to a Kybernaut post they removed.

They were agreeing with you.

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“It is not over” without more context could be interpreted as a bipartisan post about the war in general, hence admiting the boasting from all involved sides and their respectives motifs. (But still, would also find nice of the Kybernauts to have their own thread)

By the way, loved your photo @Elsebeth_Rhiannon, specially the hair.

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Too late, I have already grabbed the wrong end of the stick, and jumped to conclusions.

It’s actually quite a good exercise routine.

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Here is a thread you can use when you go on a tangent out of the scope of the original discussion. You can also start a new one, say in this case on the topic of “should people celebrate and mourn the loss of trig systems”.

On the matter itself, regardless of what you think people should feel about it, fact is a lot of people’s homes were at least changed, and in many cases destroyed, without their consent. Even if the you think the change is for good, it was done without consulting them, by force. The people who did not want it have all the right to feel something was taken from them, and to mourn, and to be angry.

“Rejoice, for I have Reclaimed you for your own good” is a line the Minmatar are intimately familiar with.

And we are not buying it this time, either.

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But we have not reclaimed anyone who doesn’t want to. Everyone who wanted to leave could - you didn’t encounter any Kybernaut opposition when evacuating those systems, did you? Nobody is forced to prove themselves or join us in the flow.

Triglavians are not the oppressors and slavers the Amarr were. They are, along with Kybernauts, the exact opposite, breakers of chains you can’t even see.

We certainly encountered Triglavian opposition. Also, evacuating entire systems, sometimes with multiple planets isn’t an easy task. Additionally, Triglavians have responded to purely civilian evacuations in ways that have been described as “Erratic and Indifferent” which might mean they don’t particularly care and sometimes won’t shoot but sometimes will.

But even if they never shot evacuations at all, they did force themselves onto entire systems and although you may have forgotten, not everyone is a wealthy capsuleer and can afford to leave planets they may have been on for many years at the drop of a hat. This would be especially true for those with larger clans or families that may wish to stick together, increasing the price and making moving more unwieldy. Others might have other reasons for being tied down to a planet as well. People who don’t want to be stuck in these places or these conditions are stuck in them. The fact that you say “If people don’t like it, they can just leave!” doesn’t really do much to console people whose homes were decimated and stolen violently by an invading force.

You did not break any chains. You backed an invading, violent force, and caused many people much pain.

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You destroyed their homes.
You murdered the entire future of those systems. Mass extinction of all naturally occurring life. Ecological genocide.
And you continue to gloss over this as though their lives mean nothing, their homes. Because the only thing that mattered was pleasing your new overlords. You’ve exchanged one set of chains for another.

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We did encounter heavy triglavian opposition in Skarkon, and in Vale, too, the system needed to be cleared of them to make clear way for the evacuations. Kybernauts, I give you, seem to have had some decency about that, though they have attacked refugee centers and civilian collection point beacons.

This said, if I showed up in your house, changed the locks, sold your furniture and replaced it with my own, and shot you if you tried to resist - would “well you can leave if you don’t like it” be good enough for you?

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Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back this up ?

Because there’s plenty that shows the Triglavians were using force. And their first messages were that people had to prove their flow or be extirpated. That is force. And oppression.

Please point me to “the plenty of evidence” that Triglavian forces applied ANY violence against civilian population in any Minmatar system

Considering the last news we have had from Skarkon, the first Minmatar liminality system, is

As all those on Skarkon II await the inevitable Triglavian landings, Republic evacuation flights continue even while thousands of troops prepare for the coming battle to control the planet.

asking anyone to point to evidence to what the triglavians do after landing does not seem sensible. I cannot give it, but neither can you.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Again, if I moved into your house without asking for your leave, threatened to shoot you if you resisted, and refused to leave, would you accept “you can leave if you do not like it” as good enough for you?

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Don’t try whataboutery or deflection. Answer the question. Either you have evidence of the Triglavians alleged peaceful intentions, or it’s all wishful thinking and projection on your part.

I’d like to add to this with what I consider the most insulting offence.

And that’s Triglavians giving colonists the ‘choice’ of accepting bioadpative manipulation or straight up dying as a result of them wrecking their system’s ecosystem.

And Kybernuats I’ve spoke with like to focus on how the Trigs are doing this to help them survive and thus are doing the right thing, despite giving them a crisis to survive in the first place. Where their options are to die or hand their bodies over to their bioadpative technology.

This new regime is off to a great start in proving they’re better than the Empires.

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So, the message was supposed to be ‘prove your flow or don’t, we don’t want to force anything on anyone’, then? Cuz I could’ve sworn it was ‘prove your flow or be extirpated’.

You are a fool, and a liar, and you chain yourself to masters you don’t even understand. Wrap yourself up in your happy delusions all you like, it will change nothing. You, and all like you, deserve nothing but an eternity of agony and pain as your very minds are destroyed from within.

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I’m pretty sure her telling everyone why the drones weren’t available was neither her demanding people justify themselves, nor asking your opinion of the matter. As a businessperson, she’s seen someone buy up all her stock. That’s potentially a bulk customer who will have a large, consistent need for those drones. She’d be an idiot if she didn’t inquire after the purchase to see if there was an opportunity for repeat business there.

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[ 2020.09.30 21:45:54 ] Aldrith Shutaq > Holy lands do not become unholy when occupied by an enemy.

I want to thank you for bringing this insight to my attention, Lord-Consort. It comes at a difficult time, and has impressed upon me, through meditations on the Scriptures, a reminder that the stars belong to God alone. No matter what the next weeks bring in this apparent suspension in hostilities, the stars of Holy Amarr and beyond will not cease to belong to God’s domain.

It is for this reason that I feel God’s commandment to witness His glory in light, and here I will remain, nearby to the stars that the invaders believe their own. May the faithful recall the Code of Demeanor and the Book of Missions, and may they allow God’s hope to fill them, and light the way.

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Does it? I mean, isn’t that the very essence of the feudal model in the first place? Each level commands a certain range of armed forces, and the highest levels use the collective pressure of their combined might to keep each of the lower lords in line.

I mean, sure, ‘I RULE, I AM STRONGEST’ on its own breaks down pretty quick when people gang up on Mr. Strongest, but once you start cloaking it in ritual and pomp… it’s sort of the basis for every authoritarian system of government, ever.

Yeah, you and I are going to disagree on that, Arrendis.

A feudal system is ultimately a sort of hierarchy of favors and duties. It’s very top-down, and power does tend to influence one’s place in the hierarchy (though it’s easy for that to get out of control, which is one reason the Amarr are so slow about handing out hereditary promotions), but structurally it’s less about who can crush whom than who has been granted what by whom and who owes duty (fealty) to whom. Often it’s all bound together by familial bonds as well as formal hierarchical ones, with allegiances cemented by marriage.

Of course, as in any system, there are those who will use the rules only as suits them and otherwise ignore them. But criminals aren’t all that rare anywhere you go, and real loyalty in a feudal system is both expected in theory and enormously valued in practice.

There’s a huge difference between all that and a state of “might makes right,” which would be basically what the Sabik live with: a society in which “truly loyal subject” is synonymous with “pathetic fool.” Just because it doesn’t look fair to you (and by your standards it definitely isn’t) doesn’t make it such a merciless melee of drawn knives.