Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

I can hardly believe what I am reading. Are you truly so vile as to write such words in good conscience or has the federation’s propaganda seeped into your ignorant mind to that degree? You come here speaking of sympathy for my people, acting like you care for them and wish to help, but when presented with clear evidence of the sustained, continuous evil your federation exercises you dismiss it with a baseless “Everyone does bad things?” with “I am not doing the torturing and raping so its not my job to stop it?”

You disgust me, you try to cite any atrocities the State has ever committed that even approaches a fraction of that the Gallente exercise and your best shot is to mention terrorists unaffiliated with the State? Are you serious? Here we are talking about something your government exercises routinely, something that they have exercised for well over a decade now and continue to do so on the daily. You will not catch me defending Amarrian practices often, but even slaves, on average, are not treated as cruelly as you treat POWs.

We don’t care about your decadent, disgusting culture. We just want to preserve our own, something that you have been trying to erase. We want to be left alone.

I sincerely want to hope that this mad rant of yours is the result of ignorance and indoctrination on your part, because that you can surpass.

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Yeah, the Provists are some ‘unaffiliated organization’ like they didn’t rule the State and as though people like Kim don’t actively advocate for them. Even the Liberal Mega’s quietly supported the Heth regime and disavowed them only when his crimes and those of his subordinates were far too great to ignore.

Further, if the State was composed of a people who were nothing but logical and kept to themselves the Waschi uprising wouldn’t of happened, you’re capable of terrorizing even the people who help you. You are not immune to brutal treatment of other people because of some supposed ‘objective’ philosophy and I would really prefer if you stopped wasting my time by pretending otherwise.

As far as prisoners of war go: Call me crazy, but if militant civilians and ‘rogue’ soldiers are willing to shoot random miners for the crime of living in a fringe part of the Federation, i’m not exactly inclined to believe your claims of a moral highground or that the State doesn’t commit a multitude of crimes on the daily. The fact that the State has a habit of scrubbing the records of their war criminals and that this happens not only in Solitude, but every Federation system i’v visited thusfar, leads me to be more then a little skeptical.

You get an A for effort though. Try a little less vitriol next time, it makes your State approved blinkers really obvious.

Remilia

So, you just want to preserve your own… by attacking the State, and working for enemies of the State?

Why should anyone take you seriously as a Caldari viewpoint?

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I…

Wait what, you’re a Kyber?

I am so confused.

All of us who chose to support the collective did so for different reasons.

Not all Kybers joined the cause to burn high security space down. Some joined to take action against empires who have wronged their homes.

While I cant speak on Remilia’s reasons for fighting, i am proud to fight by their side.

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The Provists are not in power. Heth hasn’t been in power for years, meanwhile your atrocities both predate and succeed Heth’s rule. But tell you what, even if Heth was still in power, even if the Navy, a Navy that might I remind you that all citizens of the state are required to serve in for at least three years, were fanatical supporters of Heth, do you really think that would excuse these atrocities? I would not wish such brutality even on my worst enemy, even the most deplorable person I can even conceive of.

Yes, I am a Sobornost Kybernaut. I am also a proud Caldari. I assure you if the Collective suddenly exhibited even a fraction of the hatred the Gallente express for my people, my allegiances would be much different.
You don’t have to accept my word as one of any authority, think me a hypocrite if you will so, but that does not affect my points, nor does it excuse the Federation’s crimes against humanity.

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The point is not to excuse the atrocities, as that implies it washes the perpetrators hands of blame but rather to understand them. Which, yes, in the context of the Heth regime is a lot more understandable. My main bone to pick with the idea that the Provists aren’t in power and therefore they should not be held up as an example is the simple fact that the Provists are the end result of Caldari society. The strict Milliterism and Xenophobia will always produce Hethian-styled fascists, to me the difference between Heth and many of the States higher ups is next to none at this point.

Though even if you were absolutely correct that the Gallente were a ‘decadent and disgusting culture’ with the Caldari just wanting to be left alone. Your current actions more or less broke the back of the Caldari military. The Federation would have to run not six, not twenty, not hundreds, but thousands of such prison facilities to output the same kind of widespread damage and destruction that the Triglavians have caused the state by devouring it’s Suns and converting so many of it’s key systems into hunting grounds.

It’s not a question of hatred, it’s a question of inhumanity.

Yeah, nope, not really a thing. I mean, you have to understand that there is a hefty percentage of Federation citizens who don’t even know who the president is. Or that we have a new one.

This strange myth of all Federation folk going around touting “Gee I Sure Hate the Caldari” is not a true one. Some of our Hawks, sure, but even they hate the State more than they bother to hate Caldari as a people. It’s ridiculous self victimization that’s being used to rationalize literally killing entire solar systems’ worth of biospheres and ecosystems in the State to only say “but the Gallente tho”

huh

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Right, so it’s totally fine that they’re dispassionately taking State territory, turning Caldari people into something not quite human, and definitely no longer Caldari by the tens of millions. Because, you know, they don’t actually care who they annihilate, they’re just gonna ace everyone.

So, you treat them fairly - but when do you keep them? Do you organize any prison facilities yourself, or you transfer them to Federal authorities? Because if you do - they eventually end in one of these prisons when they are treated like that. Yes, if you capture Caldari POWs and transfer them to Federals, you’re just as guilty as they are.

First.
Caldari Providence Directorate ruled the State from YC110 to YC115. Those, who were acting against Provists were enemies of the State. It was every citizen’s duty to support Provists and shame on those who didn’t.

Second.
CPD has been disbanded in YC115, and those who support the State took their positions elsewhere. Those who claim to be Provists now are simple gurista and brigands, since the Organizaton doesn’t exist anymore as for decision of the main ruling body of the State - Chief Executive Panel. Supporting Provists now has no sense. On the other hand, supporting these criminals who claim they are “provists” is supporting gurista and thieves, like ones who tried to steal Caldari Navy vessels during that infamous ‘provist hunt’.

Third.
All so-called ‘crimes’ of Tibus Heth are just allegiations, he never had a chance to defend himself in the CBT against them. Instead, he died as a True Caldari, as a Hero and a Partiot in a fight against Sansha invaders in Aivonen system.

Fourth.
I fully agree with the Kybernaut. I mean, you can squeal I support Triglavians because of this or other nonsence, so I just state once again that Collective are enemies of the State. But I would like to cite her words here and sign below them myself.

Yes. That claim that “Everyone does bad things” is just childish and baseless. There are crimes your Federation commits and there are proofs to them.

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On the subject of Empires and prisoners of war, I’ve always re-employed any survivors of police actions I’ve undertaken, rather than turn them over to any Imperial government.

Depends on the degree of importance. Officers go to the Federals, the risk of them being tortured is there, but they also are important command personnel and often I find just old fashioned war criminals themselves. They knew the risks, made their bed, and they have to lie in it.

The whole bit about Tibus Heth just kind of speaks for itself really. Can I just point out that Diana Kim is eerily similar to the Triglavians in rhetoric when you compare them side by side? it’s uncanny.

As far as the Provists being Gurista’s goes: Personally, I think the Gurista’s have more honor then Heth ever did. If you want to actually help the Caldari people i’d recommend tossing in your uniform and joining at the nearest opportunity. They seem to care about the people in the State more then the State does at this point.

They have better PR too.

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The point is to stop these atrocities.

“I have a baseless theory that your culture produces fascists so I am going to keep advocating for its erasure by force, all while ignoring the Federation’s atrocities.”

Try harder, you sick freak.

No-one with half a brain cell believes this. The issue isn’t the average citizen, its those that know of, and perpetuate these crimes. Much like Mr. Chet-Shi, gleefully handing POWs in to these monsters, his conscience clear because he does not have to bear witness to the end result.

You are, without any exaggeration, a psychopath. Do you seriously advocate for this kind of treatment just because of their rank? I was not blowing hot air on my earlier post, I can sincerely not picture a foe deserving of this, even inhuman, omnicidal monsters like the Drifters deserve more respect than this.

To be perfectly candid: Cry me a river, Kyber. When a Calderi officer is threatening to bomb a mining facility to save his sorry hide i’m not going to keep myself from turning him in just because some prison conditions in the Federation are brutal and unforgiving. Your platitudes don’t hold much weight in a war between civilizations where both sides go out of their way to target civilian instillations because the ‘practical’ thing to do is cause as much damage to morale as possible and to stop production.

My conscious is never clear, but it’s clearer because i’v seen the end result too many times. I don’t live in a fantasy world of rainbows and sunshine where my people are the unwavering champions of all that is good and just in the world. I just take one look at the States jackbooted thugs and think that I don’t want them to burn my system to the ground, minimize the suffering I cause when I can, but sometimes being kind to some people means being cruel to others. The easiest proof that the Provists are the end result of the States way of doing things are people like you. If you have any critique of the State you save it for when you’re not trying to score a goal on the other team, in the meantime you’re more then willing to feed Xenophobia and reinforce a simplistic world view because it personally makes you feel better about yourself.

It’s just tiring. I can at least try to be nice to Diana because she’s just plain indoctrinated. Can’t see in front of her nose, but since it’s the only life she seemingly has ever lived with no plans to change, I can at least forgive the fascist tendencies based on pure ignorance. You though? You rejected your people and sold them out, but keep the identity just to play the victim card. When someone calls out that the State hasn’t exactly been a paragon of justice you ignore it because you selectively decide who is and who is not Caldari. Even though the Provists never went anywhere, they just vanished into the crowd. You’re not ignorant, you’re just delusional.

Pathetic.

Says the person supporting the forced mutation of millions into something not human, just because the Trigs feel like it.

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Is it my imagination, or did the IGS get suddenly worse when I took a week off posting ?

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No. The quality level in the last week has been pretty par for the course.

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Says the person from alliance who secured a victory for Trigs for at least one system.

Diana Kim rushing to the defense of a Kyber because they agreed with something she said, color me shocked.

Yet somehow we’re supposed to be the Triglavian conspirators? you have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair.