Ah so hacking CONCORD facilities then? Is that not illegal? Shame, shame?
No matter how much the state got spanked by the Collective, Triglavian caches donât belong to the State any more than they belong to me. Especially when they are in Federation space. (And before you yammer on, no. I donât recognize CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act as being legitimate. Yes, we disagree on that. Tough.)
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Needless to say, Iâve invested in pearl futures.
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Well then whoâs are they? The Federations, just because itâs in technically Federation space, even though technically itâs Caldari space because the Federation agreed to the CEMWPA regardless of your opinion on the matter?
Do they belong to EDENCOM? Thereâs a real possibility they would, since Triglavian data would presumably fall under the umbrella of EDECOMâs remit, it being a joint venture by all the empires after all. But I have a feeling the Federation wouldnât had over any data they got their hands on either.
True. Whoâs hands are the data actually in? If itâs still in a Triglavian cache, does it belong to the State just because they put ships near it?
Then if I park a ship near it is it equally mine as well?
People are acting like this data is stolen from the State when it seems like everyone is racing to steal it from the Triglavians. Not exactly solid legal footing for anyone.
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Since when did we care what the Triglavians thought?
Iâm more saying that ARC should be careful of their actions. You can argue around, over and under about who actually owns it. But if you take something from me by force, and then later want to negotiate with me for something else, Iâm not going to look favorably on you.
I donât. Triglavians can kick rocks for all I care.
My point is people are making an awful lot of noise about taking this Data from the State when it seems debatable whether or not the State can even be said to have it in the first place, and additionally the State is equally taking it from others.
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Iâm doing it mostly to annoy Makoto. The State can fight itâs own battles without my help. That being said, I do have family whoâre in the Navy, and I would take a very dim view of anyone who would potentially put them in harmâs way. Which is what Makoto is doing.
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That is honest and understandable. Thank you.
No Caldari has made this argument thus far. ASMR weaves carefully around the issue, describing the sites as âTriglavian sites secured by an EDENCOM member stateâ and calling the incidents âunsanctioned intrusionsâ.
It is obvious the captured sites are State property as spoils of war. But I believe no one has mentioned this because it is not relevant.
The substance of the issue is that ARC continues to work directly and openly against State interests. That they claim to be an âinternationalâ organization not hostile to the Caldari is a farce that must be shamed.
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No Caldari has made this argument?
The very first line about it from all the detractors, including ASMR, in the â[SAYR-] ASMR News Special Report! ARC Fleet Collaborates with Triglavian Kybernauts against the State!â thread were concerns about ARC versus the State, not EDENCOM. Yes, ASMR went on to talk about âmember state of EDENCOMâ but that is just a neutral way of saying the State. They didnât say EDENCOM, they said member state of EDENCOM. It was not concern for EDENCOM, it was concern for the State. Iâm not saying you cannot be concerned for the State or Caldari Navy personnel. But stop pretending like this is some neutral concern, it is not.
If the data within those Triglavian relays is important to national security it should, if this was a sane world, be in the hands of EDENCOM and not the Caldari State. Just like the failure of EDENCOM to secure the Arshat transmuter from the Empire saw the creation of those three abominations in Minmatar space, so too shall I think we will look back on this data being fought over by the State and Federation as the core for a future failing.
The big four cannot be individually trusted with precursor information. They are too quick to weaponize it against each other and push for more death and war. The Amarr are using their new toys as experimental weapons. So too do I have no faith that the State and Federation would be any different. ARC at least seeks knowledge and to my understanding has not built terrifying weapons with which to obliterate star systems.
I donât know ARCâs motives or goals. I know what they were like some years ago when I worked with them to uncover the initial mysteries surrounding the Triglavians. They keep their methods close to their chest but they do release their findings publicly, openly, with everyone. Which is how it should be. I have some small amount of faith that if this data means anything significant, they will do so again and release the information for all.
I have no such faith that the State would be so humanitarian. Too focused on their grudges and the profit that they think not of the blood.
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Donât forget that the Big 4 suspended the Yulai Conventions on the interested sites ignoring further CONCORD consultations. So the first one who made a violation of common accords for the stability of New Eden are the empires themselves, State included. Every accusation made against the ARC have State source and news, so they can be heavily influenced by State propaganda while none of other parts declared and reported anything. Yes, ARC can be suspectable since there was that Triglavian sympathizer, but nobody is innocent in this cluster crisis.
I believe you mistook my meaning. The âargumentâ referred to was:
My point is people are making an awful lot of noise about taking this Data from the State when it seems debatable whether or not the State can even be said to have it in the first place, and additionally the State is equally taking it from others.
That is, whether this is a property issue. It is not.
If the data within those Triglavian relays is important to national security it should, if this was a sane world, be in the hands of EDENCOM and not the Caldari State. Just like the failure of EDENCOM to secure the Arshat transmuter from the Empire saw the creation of those three abominations in Minmatar space, so too shall I think we will look back on this data being fought over by the State and Federation as the core for a future failing.
The big four cannot be individually trusted with precursor information.
Then there is no room for common ground between us.
Absurd. Iâm sure we can agree onâŚmaybe food or something of the sort. Never give up on dialogue.
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I think the Gallente Federation should be divided into 3 parts.
In a very real way, I fear that the collective desire to believe that Hethâs death or disappearance has âresolvedâ the issue of extremism in the State has only allowed the ideology that enabled Heth to become stronger with time.
This latest crop of polemicists in the militia do not give me hope.
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In fairness, until such a time as people find a way to cancel someoneâs clone contracts, all denigrators will be impotent.
If it qualifies as infiltration, then it goes the opposite way you think it does.
That is why I choose to remain formal.
Why canât it just be Lord, though? Not trying to be rude, just trying to be efficient.
In fairness, everyone here is an adult, so it is somewhat expected that everyone here has already been built up. Furthermore, whilst I usually do not participate in rudeness, it stands to reason that adults should be able to shrug such things off if the less civil resort to it.
The strongest.
I have seen you flying around in Athounon too, naughty being.
â â â â â â â â .
I think the Minmatar Republic should also be divided, equitably, into 8 parts.
You mean like that time the Empire agreed to recognise Republic sovereignty over the Rebel Provinces, ceased military operations in those regions, and opened multilaterial dialogue with several parties including your own nation, all through jointly-drafted, signed and recognised treaties?
Because when it did that, your people responded by secretly building an enormous fleet of warships and then launching a surprise total assault right into the heart of Amarrian space, inflicting damages against Holy Amarr so severe that God Himself literally had to intervene through the miracle of Jamylâs resurrection, ultimately leaving all those that had argued in favour of those peaceful actions severely discredited in the eyes of their compatriots.
You often like to lecture others on the importance of facing the facts, Shaninn, when theyâre convenient for the narrative you want to push, but it often feels as though you act ignorant of the very real fact that your own nation did more to hurt international efforts for diplomacy that you claim to be in favour of than any other, and your constant attempts to undermine a discussion thread designed for constructive dialogue around recently reported Triglavian movements cast considerable doubt on your sincerity. I expect better from you.
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Well, the alternative is you continue the current attack, in which case we will, obviously, respond. Going back the line of history further and further to who started what first will not gain you any points in the long run. We are in the situation we are in and no amount of wishful thinking that weâd have done something differently in the past will not change it. Either you want a peaceful way out from here and now, or you donât.
Cute.
But it really works better when the admiral does it.