Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

so you’re unequivocally opposed, because you have principles. Correct ?

I think you’re bending yourself into a pretzel. Someone advocating for ignoring you as a person - a fairly lovely piece of advice I keep forgetting myself - is largely separate from opinions on whatever insufferable noise you’re making at the time.

What is it with you people ? Cardinal Graelyn said I had the figure of a gymnast, Lunarisse glares at me whenever it is mentioned I used to be a sportball cheerleader at school, and now you accusing me of contortionism. What is this obsession with my musculo-skeletal flexibility ?

Simple. Jealousy.

Did you ever take up ice climbing?

Oh, yes!

It’s amazing!

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That’s wonderful. I’ll have to try it sometime.

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I hear it’s pretty cool.


I think we’re getting off-topic here.

So, good job, carry on.

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That is a Sweet thing to Say, though I am Quite Sure that I am not Perfect, there is Much that I still Have Difficulty with.

That is actually what “freedom” means. Maybe it’s you who mistakes it for something else? Didn’t you think about it?

Ms. Kim, this stubborn misunderstanding’s gotten really old. “Freedom” and “chaos” are not synonyms and almost nobody but maybe you thinks they are.

The first question you need to ask is, what kind of freedom is being talked about? The Gallente are usually talking about individual freedom (the kind you seem to object to). The Caldari are usually talking about freedom from the Gallente or other outside influences. For Amarr it typically refers to manumission: release from slavery, being given more latitude to choose one’s own path, and is usually offered to those of proven faith and loyalty. For the Matari it’s similar, but also meaning escape from slavery rather than release, but also might mean freedom from foreign influence.

I’m sure there are plenty more ways it gets deployed, almost always positively regardless of cultural context.

Again, often “freedom” means the freedom of a nation to handle its own affairs as it sees fit without having to bow to a conqueror, literal or cultural. What conqueror would you have the Caldari bow to so as to reject “freedom”?

For me, like Ms. Tsukiyo, it’s the leeway to choose my own path in this world, including where I wander and whom I choose to serve-- who I will be. It’s a bit of a Gallentean take admittedly but I’m not the one who came up with the idea that capsuleers should be independent mercenaries bound perhaps by personal loyalty but not by law at all. As those rules permit, I choose my own path.

While I know my predecessor was profoundly loyal to the State in her way, I don’t have her memories or the sentiments they might stir.

It’s no nation, but only a certain person who holds my loyalty, now. I have made my choice, and am content.

Ms. Tsukiyo’s mistake was to decide all her choices were meaningless so she might as well just do whatever’s the most fun. She doesn’t acknowledge that subjective experience carries any weight, or there is therefore such a thing as better or worse. It’s hypocritical, though, because that means she prioritizes one subjective experience over all others: her own.

You, too, are gifted an overabundance of freedom, Ms. Kim. Even if you reject it, that, too is a choice you make … freely.


There is a significant misunderstanding in everything you have written, and probably you shall dedicate some time to introspect on it. Again, you’re quick to jump to judge others, but you show you can’t judge yourself.

When we speak we are free from Gallente (or more like, fighting for Independence from them, or even more like to be free even from Gallentean influence) we don’t really use word “freedom”.

In this case or many others you have explicitly specified what you want to be free. Want to be free from slavery? Okay. Want to be free from Gallente? Okay.

But when you say just freedom, what would that mean? Maybe you want to free your leg from a slaver hound who bit into your shin with deadly grip? How would I know? And would you use word “freedom” at all in this case?

We have mouths to say words, we have ability to type words, and we have ability to specify what exactly we want to be free with.

And if you use simple word “freedom” without explanation, what else would it mean if not being free from… everything? Which is, rather logical by the typical concept this word bears.

Oh… and say thanks I didn’t went straight for that “low hanging fruit” and didn’t start teaching you difference between synonyms and homonyms, because next time I could put my “teachers glasses” on and go right for that.

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Ah, words. Words, words.

Why not?

Free (verb) my leg. Make my leg free (adjective). Achieve freedom (noun, the state of being free) for my leg from the drooler’s jaws.

It’s a slightly odd usage, but it works fine.

And while I might enjoy a mental image of Aria with a slaver hound on her leg, screaming “GIVE ME MY FREEDOM!”

I’d still would like to return to the point of context: who knows what happens on forum with your leg, when you just provide text and don’t show your leg with that slaver hound on it or say that explicitly?

Could it be not a slaver hound on your leg, but say, your head stuck in a laundry machine?

Ms. Kim, a person saying, “give us our freedom,” is not necessarily asking for freedom from the things you seem to want that word to mean (unless maybe it’s a Gallentean saying it). It’s context-sensitive.

A Federal national protesting U-NAT policies, Caldari national on a Federation-occupied world, a POW, a Matari slave in the Empire, and a Matari slave in Curse are likely to all mean at least slightly different things.

None of them are likely to mean, “Give me freedom from any laws or social strictures whatsoever,” probably not even the Federal national. Similarly it’s not likely to mean “freedom from oxygen,” “freedom from life,” or “freedom from not being tortured.”

Context: it’s important.

Well, yes, but no.

It exactly would mean freedom from any laws or social structures.

Caldari national on a Federation-occupied world is supposed to follow Federal law, provided they’re non-combatants, it’s for their own safety. If they wish to fight against it - they’re welcome to join SWA, get required training and join our fight against the Federation. But if they will fight without putting on uniform, that’s literally a warcrime, because you’re expecting that non-combatants will not try to kill you. Their “fight” might become outright terrorism - what literally “freedom fighting” mean.

POWs are the people who disgraced themselves with surrender to the enemy, they didn’t have honor to take a death in combat, choosing a life in captivity. Well, of course I am against inhmane and brutal treatment of POWs like gallente do, stuffing them into explosive cells and so on, I think POWs should be treated as humans, but still it’s their choice, and they must obey rules it entails.

Matari slave in Empire if wants to get free well clearly could imply either a violation of law or violation or social structure, or even both at the same time. For some of them it’s their social status in imperial hierarchy. For others - it’s outright penal punishment, and “freedom” for these might mean the same as “freedom” for jailed criminal offenders in the State or Federation. Fighting against their status means fighting against the law.

And don’t try to tell me that shaking a slaver hound from your leg makes you a… freedom fighter.

Freedom fighters are just terrorists who are fighting against established laws, norms and standards of expected behavior.

And it’s exactly existence of such groups, that murder for the sake of their freedom, or commit other violent crimes, makes for me concept of “freedom” painted by such terms, and when someone says something about freedom, first of all I imagine this rowdy scum, and not, say, for example, Aria with head stuck in laundry machine.

Though, honestly, I’d prefer to see the latter than the former.

Okay, fess up. Who pulled the lever on the old roundabout machine? You should know better by now, it doesn’t go anywhere but the same old circle doing significant damage to the braincells of everyone involved.

Don’t worry, you’re certainly not in the risk group, since everything that could be damaged is already damaged.

With respect, so have attempts to respond to it.