One Way to Balance High-Security Space 🗡

[MB_ThePhotographer]

You maybe?

[LowKey_Chandler]

How about MEEA - Make Eve Eve Again.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

All we would get outta that is president bump.

[Omnis_Decline]

@MB_ThePhotographer

What would be left of the game after that? Bots…

@Lucas_Kell

Serious question, do you genuinely believe that ganking is all that exists in EVE?

If you read the post you’re replying to, they clearly think that both ganking and bots exist in EVE.

Back on topic though… I’d be more interested in seeing “bounties” tied into a combination of the Kill Right and Insurance mechanics.

When you’re killed by CONCORD, you don’t get any payout on your insurance (and even uninsured ships get a partial payout if it’s not CONCORD blowing you up), right? What if a kill through a Kill Right was counted as a CONCORD kill, and then some? If you succeed in killing the person you have the Kill Right against, you get their insurance payout instead of them? Would make it more appealing to target someone with a Kill Right on them, and potentially moreso if they’re in an expensive ship when you do… (but only if you think you can win)

I have no idea if this is actually a good idea, but… it’s an idea? Thoughts?

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Omnis_Decline

If you succeed in killing the person you have the Kill Right against, you get their insurance payout instead of them? Would make it more appealing to target someone with a Kill Right on them, and potentially moreso if they’re in an expensive ship when you do… (but only if you think you can win)

I have no idea if this is actually a good idea, but… it’s an idea? Thoughts?

Kill rights are already exploited and self-harvested. The only players you’ll hurt with this sort of change would be those who use the kill right/suspect flag system to bait other players into fights. Since those players already operate at a disadvantage, it seems excessive to target them. All you’ll accomplish is removing a play style that’s completely unrelated to ganking.

And in general, any mechanic that automatically takes something away from one player to give to another (e.g. “money out of wallet from ganker to victim” that carebears really love proposing on the forums) doesn’t belong in the game because it detracts from player agency.

[Omnis_Decline]

@Destiny_Corrupted

And in general, any mechanic that automatically takes something away from one player to give to another (e.g. “money out of wallet from ganker to victim” that carebears really love proposing on the forums) doesn’t belong in the game because it detracts from player agency.

If you read my suggestion, nobody’s having money taken out of their wallet. They’re just not being given money they would get if they were killed by someone without a kill right. And this could potentially lead to Kill Right Insurance fraud but… I thought figuring out how to do things like that was the point?

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Omnis_Decline

If you read my suggestion, nobody’s having money taken out of their wallet. They’re just not being given money they would get if they were killed by someone without a kill right.

It’s the same thing.

[Omnis_Decline]

@Destiny_Corrupted

It’s the same thing.

That’s the exact opposite of true. I didn’t just send 1,000,000,000 ISK to your character. Check your balance. Is it still the ame as it already was? Because if it hasn’t dropped by a trillian ISK simply because of me not giving you that amount, you’re wrong.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Codename_Razorback

I can understand you guys trying so hard to protect the only way you know to make ISK in this game.

Bruh, you don’t even know how to farm 4s.

I don’t think you can talk

@Codename_Razorback

LULZ. I owned my first Super/Mom before you even started playing the game. I’m pretty sure that I understand the mechanics of gameplay.

You’re so cool bro

Understand mechanics? But don’t understand how to farm 4s?

@Lucas_Kell

I always find it a really weird argument where some people are like “if someone is able to do something in perfect safety in one area of space, I can’t possible continue playing the game”. What does it really matter if a large pile of people pay CCP to mine veldspar in safety if veldspars impact on the wider economy is contained?

This here again shows your lack of MMO knowledge

@Lucas_Kell

They already have free reign, because gankers don’t target bots.

mat Osito does all the time

Again, we get it. You don’t play

@Lucas_Kell

I claim they go after inexperienced players yet out of the two of us you think my claim is more in need of proof.

I mean you are a proven liar, botter and griefer so

@Lucas_Kell

I’m always honest

Oh man, the irony

@Scipio_Artelius

There’s a lot more analysis than just graphs, but I can’t post it now.

When Scipio just drops straight data to the dome. It is a beautiful sight.

@Zaera_Keena

If @Lucas_Kell said that he always lies, would he have been telling the truth or a lie?

Holy crud that is a good logic problem!

@Lucas_Kell

I’d expect overall highsec PvP to be down from a decade ago following the war changes. I’m also not sure how much in overall number will just be down to activity dropping. Thanks for the data though I’ll give it a good look over.

Translation: You ROFLcoptered him into the ground and now he’s never gonna bring this data up again

@Codename_Razorback

Ganking is griefing and I don’t think the original developers intended to be this way.

They were UO players. Yea they did : DC already dropped the receipts. Cry about it

@Codename_Razorback

I’ll gladly pay someone to monitor the in-game channel, “Why Was I Ganked” and compile a comprehensive report. In ISK of course. I ask that each of you take some time and sit in that channel and listen to how they demean and belittle every pilot that gets ganked and is invited to the channel.

As someone whose been in there for months, there is always some salt mining but nothing too crazy. Usually the gankees say the crazy stuff. However, being in there you will see very quickly that hardly any nubs being ganked. Just HVTs.

How much you gonna pay me?

@Lucas_Kell

I’m absolutely certain I understand the game’s economy better than you do,

I actually think DC has got you beat there. You’ve never really demonstrated actual knowledge of the game’s economy. Just opinions

@Codename_Razorback

Here I thought it was God. Whew.

Um. Yennoe there are other deities besides the Christian one right? Also um, yennoe his name isn’t really God right?

@Destiny_Corrupted

erudite

You made him Google words

@Lucas_Kell

They’ve already stated their intention to reduce ganking, you’re losing this one.

Yennoe, I really don’t get it. You’ve been proven wrong on this opinion several times, yet you keep coming back to this falsehood. Do you hope if you keep repeating it, it’ll be true?

@Lucas_Kell

You get that your reach doesn’t really extend beyond your own echo chamber, right?

At least we have friends that can be those echoes

@Codename_Razorback

Who’s really being disingenuous here?

Bro you literally confuse a vidya game and real life all the time

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Omnis_Decline

That’s the exact opposite of true. I didn’t just send 1,000,000,000 ISK to your character. Check your balance. Is it still the ame as it already was? Because if it hasn’t dropped by a trillian ISK simply because of me not giving you that amount, you’re wrong.

Your ship’s unrealized insurance payout is an asset.

[Omnis_Decline]

@Destiny_Corrupted

Your ship’s unrealized insurance payout is an asset.

One which you risk by targeting another player in any secure system. This just expands the scope of the risk that was already present.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

That’s not a scope of risk for ganking. The scope of risk for genking encompasses the act of ganking itself, in a pass/fail outcome that makes/costs the ganker some amount of time and/or money.

There are many other ways to acquire a suspect flag that don’t involve “targeting another player in any secure system” that your idea would negatively impact, and this is, once again, on top of the removal of agency from players by having what essentially amounts to an automatic, non-consensual transfer of assets between them.

Just be honest and say that you want ganking to cost more. That’s obviously your intent, so why beat around the bush? There are other, simpler ways to go about that than implementing a convoluted mechanic that diminishes the aspect of player choice in the game.

[Omnis_Decline]

At the moment, that isn’t within the current scope of risk for ganking. What I suggested, simply bouncing off another person’s suggestion, was an altternative solution for getting a similar result to what they were asking for, but one using existing mechanics in a different way, instead of adding new (or bringing back old? There used to be a player-run bounty system, right?) mechanics that are separate from the systems already present in the game. This - obviously - involves changing the scope of the risk you take when ganking, which is what I was saying it does in my previous comment. Sorry for not being clearer about that point.

I don’t think thhis “diminishes player choice” either. I think it adds more consequences - or at least the potential for such - to some actions while still leaving players free to do those things. My goal isn’t specifically to make ganking more expensive, it’s to bounce an alternative to an existing suggestion off the conversation and see what comes back.

Thank you for the very constructive posts, and the explanations of why you’re arguing against my idea. My original suggestion came with a disclaimer that I don’t know if it’s a good idea, and as much as I’ve been playing devil’s advocate for it in my replies (and am continuing to do so), you are giving me valid points to think about as reasons why it’s probably not a good idea. I’m glad you’re here to share the opinions from a perspective with (much) more playtime than my own. o7

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Omnis_Decline

There used to be a player-run bounty system, right?

Yes, but the bounties were paid out from a pool of money that other players placed on the player with the bounty, and not from what effectively amounts to the bounty-holder’s wallet.

@Omnis_Decline

I think it adds more consequences - or at least the potential for such

Why is this needed?

@Omnis_Decline

Thank you for the very constructive posts, and the explanations of why you’re arguing against my idea. My original suggestion came with a disclaimer that I don’t know if it’s a good idea, and as much as I’ve been playing devil’s advocate for it in my replies (and am continuing to do so), you are giving me valid points to think about as reasons why it’s probably not a good idea. I’m glad you’re here to share the opinions from a perspective with (much) more playtime than my own. o7

You’re welcome, but you have to understand my perspective here: we get people coming to the forums all the time to propose asinine ideas like taking money out of ganker’s wallets or charging their credit cards for PLEX or whatever to give to their targets “BECAUSE GANKING IS GETTING OUT OF CONTROL AND NEEDS TO BE STOPPED,” and this feels like more of the same.

So before presenting the idea, you have to actually justify the need, which you haven’t yet done. If you do, it could be a decent idea? I don’t know.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Omnis_Decline

an altternative solution

But, as I always ask here, what problem is actually being ‘solved’ ? All too often when I see people talk about solutions, I wonder was there actually a problem in the first place that required ‘solving’…as I see numerous ‘solutions’ put forward without anyone ever clearly defining what the solution is solving.

Often, the absence of any real connection between problem and solution, or indeed the absence of any clearly defined problem at all, just leaves me thinking ‘solution’ is just a guise for wanting change under the guise of pretending to ‘solve’ something.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Omnis_Decline

There used to be a player-run bounty system, right?

yah
was the first big mistake i ever did in eve
some bloke killed me
so in my carebear head i thought
i will put a BIIIG bounty on that MOFO
he will see , ha ha , I’m so smart

i received eve mails for YEARS , because of that
the dude liked to do shenanigans in HS so he could care less for the bounty , he even liked it
the payment every time was split and small so the bounty NEVER ended

years after i saw him , sent a message saying i received eve mails for years because of you (by the time i already found the situation funny )
he laughed and replied , you are not the first to say that

[Karak_Terrel]

@tutucox_Khamsi

i received eve mails for YEARS , because of that

It’s a fan mail subscription.

I don’t think it was delayed, or was it? Otherwise that would have been an exceptional tool for ag to get notified about gankers. Don’t even know if they used it for that.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Karak_Terrel

It’s a fan mail subscription.

I don’t think it was delayed, or was it? Otherwise that would have been an exceptional tool for ag to get notified about gankers. Don’t even know if they used it for that.

i don’t know nothing about it
i just know i used to receive a mail with
" a bounty was payed for the kill of ruffus in the amount of 100k isk " or sumting
almost every time i logged in , FOR A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNG time

another cool history
i used to receive 20 million for kill rights every time some dude killed me
i discovered "make available to al"l and some times i even got profit
them
i killed some dude and he got a kill right

he put the kill right , i mail him DUDE don’t do it , i will pay you X isk
he replied , na man , ill take it out

and he did
but put again
sent mails he took of again
but he put again randomly

every ■■■■■■■ time i freaked out
i was sooooo afraid , omagaaaad my paladin , omagaaad my providence

nowadays i laugh at that … i was soooo scared back them
some things in eve teach you over time to don’t give a ■■■■

thats why i remember this meaningless little encounters

[Githany_Red]

@Aiko_Danuja

@Codename_Razorback

Please explain how AG profits

You can loot Catalyst wrecks. In EvE, risk = reward. If you want more reward, you need to try riskier behaviour, instead of flying an interceptor in Highsec

Yes even though we was out numbered 42 to 9 in uedama last night the new players had great fun loot your cat wrecks, one went away with 50mil for an hours killing and jamming gankers, however you wish to belittle that, the guy was happy with 50mill, and knowing your ganks cost you more isk than you made every time I was there, especially the failed gank.

Fail means your targets not dying, not as one of your lap dogs said in local and I quote" we didn’t fail we aborted" if you aborted you really need to get your ships out not leave 42 cat wrecks behind, maybe work on that.

[Aiko_Danuja]

If that’s failure, I hope we fail more often!