Capsuleers generally go through a long and rigorous selection process. We don’t know that many people could be cloned in this manner.
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Riordan, contact me.
Edit: I would also like to point out to the various naysayers around here that cloning is an older and more proven technology than your Capsuleer implants, at least as far as the use inside the four empires. Most problems do not stem from technological restrictions but rather theological. There are many “ethical” restrictions in place by your various governments that have done a very good job of making people think it is a difficult process.
It is not. You just lack the will to see it through.
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Clearly you have no recall of the massacre at Sakulda.
No surprises, I mean it was only a backwater planet in Molden Heath.
Glad to know it was no great loss.
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Says the guy willing to repeat the process on a massive scale.
I can confirm that a preliminary test of the scanning devices was held in Raravoss, using a modified Manticore frame to deliver the payloads. Unfortunately due to the bulk of the devices, a more dedicated platform may be needed to achieve the scale needed to have any significant impact in regards to preserving sentient life. Due to the danger inherent in systems undergoing the Liminality process, we may need to reconsider whether we can actually deliver the number of devices needed; a blockade runner may be more tenable.
Slingshot scanner device being delivered from orbit of Raravoss I
I still urge decisive action among my fellow Coordinators in deciding what to do about this, and still argue here as I have internally that more direct action is needed to support the denizens of known space. The Liminality process is far too fast, with the Collective being supported by larger capsuleer groups such as TEST Alliance.
Dr. Riordan had warned some years back that the Anoikis Static Network was perfectly structured to facilitate an invasion of New Eden by precursor races. Though we got the etiology wrong and this invasion force hails from Abyssal space rather than Anoikis, I still wonder what the intention of that warning was if not to come to aid when that time comes? I witnessed our friends in LUMEN clash against pro-Triglavian TEST forces, heavily outnumbered, and I’d really like to be able to help our allies. While I will abide by the moratorium on war participation for now, I will remain vocal in the position that we should honor the intentions of our previous warning and aid our allies.
I remain critical, and concerned. These beams from the transmutation structures are clearly pulling coronal mass off the star.
Triglavian transmutation beam firing at Raravoss, contrasted with deep space
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Says the Sansha.
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Then do. Instead of watch a fleet, join it.
It’s not like LUMEN’s in the habit of being too stringent about fleet invites.
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As a survivor of the Sakulda massacre and witness to the consequences of the mass cloning of an entire, untrained population, let me just say…
What could go wrong? No hmm seriously? We only just put down a blood cult that was born from that madness. Nothing major… rolls eyes
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They did what they could for their vision to manifest itself, it took 5 empires to stop them and still they got back on their feet, hated by a sixth currently.
If will is the measure, they would be cluster winners.
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I wasn’t commenting on Sansha will or lack there-of, obviously. The comment was about Sansha willingness to scan people and their assurances that it’s going to be just fine.
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On that topic, I should reveal why our clan’s religious order, the Neris Sisterhood was disbanded. They dabbled in Sansha/Blood Raider sciences to resurrect Ashe And their fallen “heroes”, which caused our problems in the first place. Part of the reason we now consider that religious sect to be an enemy of the state.
I will be releasing full disclosure and statement behind those events and why the Sisterhood cult and their remnants should be KOS as far as the Republic is concerned shortly.
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This is a statement to update the capsuleers of the IGS on the position of Origin and the Alexylva Paradox following a public referendum within Origin. Origin has voted to aid EDENCOM in the battle against the invading Triglavian forces. The following is a copy of my statement made following the release of the referendum,
We have heard the voices of the people loud and clear. While many of us have been harmed by the actions of CONCORD, and many of us are threatened by the laws they represent and the oppression of AIs and transhumanists those laws create, they are still our cousins and kin, or parents and sometimes children, our allies and all those who called Origin home at one point who since left. It would be unconscionable to turn our backs on them now in the face of a terrifying and unknown agenda represented by the Triglavian Collective. Nay, while the Triglavians do promise change and a toppling of existing power structures, what they will replace these with and what atrocities will unfold beneath their darkened skies is not a question we can answer and until we have an answer, to ally with them would be playing with lives, projecting our own desires for liberation from CONCORD onto these mysterious invaders.
We know not what the Triglavians will do to the people of New Eden, and until we know more, we cannot allow them to continue to act. Millions of lives may hang in the balance. Thank you all for turning out to vote. We on the Board of Coordinators and within the Alexylva Paradox will heed your choices and now act to take the fight to the Triglavians across Known Space. Efforts to scan and back up the populations of afflicted systems will continue at the best speed we can proceed at, but we will focus our attention on making those terrifying and potentially unpalatable options unnecessary. We continue to do everything we can to heal and recover the Lost and Fallen, but we should seek as well to not grow their number through excessive use of cloning on civilians. We will meet the Triglavians among the stars they so covet, and we will do everything in our power to prevent them darkening the skies of Known Space.
Over the coming weeks the Alexylva Paradox will deploy military assets into threatened systems within New Eden to aid in their defense against the Triglavian Collective, we will also continue to deploy Slingshot cloning pods to populations in threatened systems. Yes, the risk of adding to the pool of Lost and Fallen is very real, but even those people will be recovered eventually. If we have their brain scans, we will not rest until we can bring them back healthy and whole, until there is no more death, no more pain, and the abyss herself gives up her dead and returns them to us.
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Dr. Saede Riordan, Systems Coordinator
Alexylva Paradox
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I’m honestly tickled pleased at how the vote went… At best I thought we’d be able to mobilize the corporate forces under a contract of sorts akin to what we’d done in the past when working with -L0W-. Instead, to my delight, the civilian government is now taking a stand.
I know many have feared the possibility of retribution at the hands of the Triglavian Collective due to our taking a side. Should they come to our doorstep I will fight tooth, nail, and clone for our people’s safety. I’d also kindly remind those of a more isolationist persuasion who are disappointed or frightened by the voting results that Origin’s space infrastructure and economy still rely on trade with core empire space. We’ve already observed Wormhole B274’s like our own Juno connecting to invaded systems. Since our front door changes every twenty-four hours, a disruption in logistics routes anywhere affects us everywhere.
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Major proponents of siding with EDENCOM included Operations Coordinator Streya Jormagdnir and Cloning services Coordinator Mikai Heliokanen. Opposing the alliance and favoring the Triglavians were System’s Coordinator Saede Riordan along with Jovian Science Coordinator Alphonse Yridrin and Reconnaissance Coordinator Niapet.
The vote split three ways between those in favor of EDENCOM, those in favor of the Triglavians, and those in favor of neutrality. The final tally showed 27% of the population supported allying with the Triglavians, 36% in favor of neutrality, and 37% in favor of siding with EDENCOM.
Well, looks to me like some 27% of the population aren’t all that keen on democracy after all. And a further 36% don’t think other people are entitled to self-determination either. So 63% of the voters, and 86% turnout, so… 54% of the population weren’t interested in democracy being a thing outside their own little bubble. Interesting.
Supporting the Triglavians because they might “topple existing power structures”. My sides.
Try asking the people of Vale… oooh, you can’t. Whoops. Forget that. Anyway, the Triglavians are most emphatically not a democratic entity. Forget their jibber jabber about cladistic proving or whatever the hell mumbo jumbo they go on about. The fact is, they were not invited by anyone. Coming in and setting up wingwangdoodles to turn stars weird colours and harvest whatever, is an authoritarian dictator move, imposing their will on whoever happened to live on that system without so much as a by your leave. Fact is, that only EDENCOM, and only some of the members thereof, guarantee any level of self-determination.
Seems a majority (54%) of your people are just fine with that kind of thing, happening to someone else, at least.
Maybe some civics lessons are needed for the population, to educate them about how democratic principles work. You might need to work on that.
(for the record, Kaztropol is a constitutional monarchy, with considerable democratic representation, in case you want to accuse me of being a hypocrite [even if I was, that doesn’t make me wrong])
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Well, looks to me like some 27% of the population aren’t all that keen on democracy after all. And a further 36% don’t think other people are entitled to self-determination either. So 63% of the voters, and 86% turnout, so… 54% of the population weren’t interested in democracy being a thing outside their own little bubble. Interesting.
What?? Just…what? That seems like such a stretch as to endanger your trapezius.
Views on the Triglavians vary widely and it’s incredibly reductive to boil it down to “everyone who wanted to stay neutral or side with them is authoritarian” when much of the Kybernaut rhetoric is directed at the corruption of the empires. True, one could (rightly) say they are misguided and wrong in throwing in with the first ancient precursor race to rock the boat, but strawmanning their positions is disingenuous. Never mind the inherent danger present in a democracy for the voters to vote away their own freedoms and how democratic societies deal with that risk, but that’s a tangent. But especially in regards to neutrality, when we’ve consistently received threats from CONCORD and empire-aligned corporations in the past: who are you (who would love to see us burn) to tell us how to live? We have made no demands of your empires, other than to leave us in peace and respect all forms of sentient life as sacred.
There are plenty who see a gun pointed to our collective head from both directions. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. At the least, my camp of thought is willing to play ball with EDENCOM and won out in the vote. At this point you needn’t make yourself out to be a victim of…some vague thought-crime? Poll results that didn’t satisfy you, an outsider?
(For the record, I was present in some of the opening artillery strikes in Vale, and have been mobilizing assets and collecting data to fight this war for weeks. I have consistently put my ships, crews, and clones on the line and won’t stand mockery from ignorant outsiders who babble on about what they think they know about our governmental processes.)
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The Kybernauts and their rhetoric are irrelevant, and quite possibly deluded. It is not they that are the party concerned. The Triglavian Conclave are. It is what they want, not what the “Kybernauts” want that is important. And the Triglavians have made it quite clear that they are not interested in democratic processes. They have made it very clear that they wish to seize many of New Eden’s populated planets by force. Remaining neutral in the face of this, or siding with them, is authoritarian.
“Strawmanning” the Kybernauts ? They strawmanned themselves.
The Triglavians offer exactly 3 things. A brainslug and AI implant, for siding with them. Or extirpation for those that don’t or are judged “unworthy”. That’s it. Brainslug&Implant, or death.
Live in peace and respect all forms of sentient life ? The Trigs have made it abundantly clear they don’t want that.
The Trigs aren’t offering self-determination. Of the EDENCOM elements, the Gallente Federation and maybe the Republic guarantee self-determination. Empire and State, not so much.
So, yeah, if your society is big on self-determination and respecting all forms of sentient life, you might want to spend a bit of effort on talking with your people, because a lot of them were voting against those principles.
And I was shooting at Trigs while your erstwhile corpmate was directly helping them. Your point ?
Why would you say that? They appear to have functional ways of proposing, trying and verifying the efficacy of their ideas, that in turn are accepted or declined by the collective, based on intercepted communications. What do you consider democracy exaclty?
I have not seen any sort of negociation attempt from our cluster to infer that force was the first or only way available or intended by the Triglavians.
Well, that would be the same reasoning that Serpentis - Guristas - Angels - Blood Raiders - EoM - Sansha etc… would have about siding with CONCORD or not fighting against them. We are all monsters in someone else’s story.
They went out of their way to test how would the cluster population survive changes and returned them in one piece (physiologically at least)
That is a somewhat limited view on the issue of social base and super structures. Entrepreneurship is something that Caldari culture values a lot and serves both the individual and the collective. How would a society with this as a core be “not so much” provider os self-determination?
Oh yes, “Elections” = Democracy then? A vote from someone in spirits know where in the cluster is more worthy than the sweat of people actually involved on the subject in discussion? Some would consider this very much authoritarian.
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Government decision making by the people or their representatives, with the consent of the governed.
That second bit is important. Otherwise it’s just mob rule.
The rhetoric of the Kybernauts isn’t irrelevant if you’re trying to win them over to your side and organize a defense. You need to learn how to deconstruct their narrative, point out its flaws, and win them over. The effort of talking to people is underway, though you presume otherwise. And neutrality of our wormhole colony is authoritarian? Pray tell, how? One second we’re a dysfunctional group of anarchists who are also somehow authoritarians, the next our lack of involvement is pivotal to the procession of this war? Why should we, who are not threatened to the same degree, get involved when faced with nothing but spite and ridicule from the denizens of core empire space who insist on our getting in line? What, siding with EDENCOM is the morally righteous thing to do? I agree, but not every voter out there is interested in moral righteousness because they’re mortal and worried about retribution from either side. I think you’re discounting how much fear of retribution by one side or the other motivated people to vote as they did (including my own, as I’d rather not have mercenaries sent to kill our people by an anonymous empire faction again).
And what corpmate? The one who had differences of opinion that couldn’t be reconciled and left to a Kybernaut corp due to my campaign to support EDENCOM? The one we’ll likely exchange fire with if we end up in in the same Local? What’s your point, if not to continue your years-long project of biting at our ankles on the IGS? If you want people to work with you, on your side, perhaps less antagonism is called for? Our position to support EDENCOM barely won out over the Neutrality bloc, and we still have a lot of work to do in organizing people. If I had used such polarizing and antagonistic, absolutist rhetoric as you in the campaign we would have surely lost. Who misunderstands democracy, now?
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