Overall gameplay Issues

[Tirador69]

@sambo_Inkura

Given enough Tristans packing Burst Jammers you can generate 6T^2 - T server calls every cycle of the burst jammer (where T is the number of Tristans). This can very quickly crash a node if you’re so inclined (note: I don’t know that this has actually been done, but it serves to illustrate the point). There was a doctrine of instawarping burst jammer interceptors in widespread use for a while there. They generated insane amounts of lag when they let rip in the middle of a large blob, not to mention the massive headaches this causes Logi pilots. I’m not sure if this is still in use.

Having been involved in several large null wars over the years, I’m more than happy to live in J-Space. Sitting in a 10% TiDi slugfest for hours isn’t fun. I don’t know that anyone actually enjoys it, especially when the servers start getting wonky and doing all kinds of weird stuff.

i ve seen this in videos, doesnt look fun and is also something they should try and improve. while stuff like this was unthinkable a few years ago, good servers can handle alot more today. After all, EVE doesnt really require alot of horsepower to run for a reason.

@sambo_Inkura

Providing SRP programs for huge fleets of faction battleships or T3 Cruisers can very quickly drain even the most robust of coalition wallets in an ongoing campaign.

so in other words alliances dont really go all out because they ve alot to lose, which sounds like its not worth the risk, therefore the game becomes static because:

@sambo_Inkura

Remember, for most alliances, this has been built up over many years. It required considerable effort by a large number of players to build these blocs.

and no one wants to lose it. The game is making people feel to attached to certain things, which ofc, if you spent 10 years building up something you dont want to lose it for no good reason, but also, if you keep it that way its just becoming static, which to me seems like has been the case for a long time now.

there needs to be more movement in eve. yesterday for example, we did an ESS fleet, around 16 cruisers, so not really a big fleet. we had to fly through many empty spaces (boring) that all were claimed but in general no one even is there. after about 2 hours of just afk’ing for 6 minutes in the bank, we found a marshal which was very obviously bait. but since we were so bored out of our minds, not finding a single fight in 2 hours, we decided to take the 1% chance he fatfingers and we can kill him before he cynos. we knew it was a suicide mission, but we were insanly bored. Then they dropped 5 dreds on 16 cruiser, fking lmao. it just isnt much fun, but i understand they could ve lost a ship so they wont risk having an enjoyable fight. Which kinda is the core issue with current eve. only undock what you can afford to lose, translates to, we will never undock something we “might” lose. as mentioned before by someone else, either join a big corp or you wont have all that much fun. that to me seems like a weird design choice which prob shouldnt exist in the first place.

@sambo_Inkura

I don’t know of any alliance that provides SRP for ratting ships. They may provide it for alliance mining ops, such as R64 mining in Pandemic Horde for example. Taking on one of these big bloc level LocustFleet mining ops requires a considerable dread bomb and a lot of planning (and spai alts).

Ratting ships are paid for by the individual player, not their alliance. Lose a ship while ratting and that’s on you.

On a side note, back when I was in the TNT alliance (a subset of goons) alliance leadership provided all members with up to ISK1b/month in ‘solo hull SRP’. The thinking was that they wanted their pilots to be a cut above the average f1 monkey. To encourage pilots to get out there and do solo and small gang roams, they would SRP your hulls to that 1b/month limit. Mind you, this was in the days of passive moon mining which formed the backbone of many alliance incomes (see also: OTEC). The moon mining changes meant alliances had to find different income streams. One of these was the Perimiter Keepstar trade hub which funelled hundreds of billions of ISK into the member alliance wallets. Asher doing away with that ISK firehose was A Good Thing™.

correct me if im wrong, but taxes are paid by members earnings right?
so lets make an example based off of no local/restricted local

a guy in X rats in an ishtar ~200-400m a ship+fit
he gets ganked once or twice a day, because null is more active now and he doesnt have eyes on every entry gate.

lets just round it down to an average loss of 300m a day if he decids to stick with cheap fits and doesnt always get ganked twice, maybe escapes
the guy plays eve for lets say 4 hours a day and ishtar ratting is without escalations at around 100m
he makes 400m a day pays corp tax of 10% which nets him a total of 60m isk per day on average

not only is the corp making less money off of him (downtime due to ganking/avoiding ganks/replacing ship) he also will most likely not want to stick with a corp that doesnt protect him, now that he is actually exposed to danger. so now instead of having 40mx30 a month, this corps gets nothing from him, thats a total loss of 1,2b a month from one ishtar ratter.

so the corp also has less money for fun fleets, therefore they ll have to gather ishtar ratters in systems and guard them, but eventually they ll hit a certain point at which anos dont respawn quick enough, which leads them to expand in other systems, which they also have to protect now.

so while they dont directly replace the ships, i would argue ganking ratter will directly influence the corp wealth

[Tirador69]

if you want to think this example even further, i would also recommend removing or limiting jump bridges to at max battlecruiser size. dreds and capitals simply have no business to quickly be moved via op mechanics, there is a reason why they are very strong and slow, jump bridges simply get rid of the downside.

so in order to keep your corp wallet full, you have to defend your income, which then means the further you are away from your home system, the less likely it is to be heavily guarded, allowing for more content since you wont be dropped by an unfightable amount of elite pvp players.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tirador69

steam reviews are in general written by mostly dumb people, thats not a secret and not related to eve per se. so yes, if a game on steam has below 95% positive reviews, chances are high its not well recieved.

If Steam reviews are mostly written by dumb people then I’d expect dumb stupid games to get the best reviews and intellectual and absorbing games to be beyond their comprehension and get less good reviews.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Destiny_Corrupted

You people can get mad all you want. But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter. You want to know why? Because I’m right.

Nah…you’re just bitter and jaundiced and sound it. I think the fact that ( as you have related in earlier threads ) you cannot take on 30,000 man corps single handedly has left you bitter over a game you clearly must have enjoyed or you’d not have spent so much time on it. And now you want to poison the well for others.

[Tirador69]

@Altara_Zemara

If Steam reviews are mostly written by dumb people then I’d expect dumb stupid games to get the best reviews and intellectual and absorbing games to be beyond their comprehension and get less good reviews.

well, yes and no. in general it equals out to if i a game doesnt have 95% positiv reviews it has issues.
review are written by either gamers or casuals. if both of those agree a game is generally in a good state.

as i mentioned before, games like tekken/dota etc. have a higher skill ceiling than eve, yet they are generally considered to be great games with small downsides while as mentioned many times throughout this thread already, eve just takes time to get to a certain point, not skill or intelligence, which turns down alot of people that dislike the idea of having to do manual labor (in a game) for months and years to then maybe have the opportunity to have fun. If eve wouldnt gatekeep anyone that isnt willing to spent like 200€ for a quick SP investment there most likely would be more new people playing.

you shouldnt forget there are alot of people that like deep and complex games, those are generally referred to as gamers. if you for example say you dont mind or like paying for an adventage in a game, that puts you at candy crush level, from a skill perspective, not at a gamer status.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tirador69

as i mentioned before, games like tekken/dota etc. have a higher skill ceiling than eve

I think you have no idea of the actual skill ceiling of Eve. You’ve barely been in the game 10 weeks…are are exhibiting classic noob Dunning Kruger where you think you comprehend way more than you actually do.

@Tirador69

eve just takes time to get to a certain point

Well of course it does. So why do you keep trying to compare it to games where you can just jump in and be SuperMutantHero with amazing kill ratio all in one day ?

@Tirador69

which turns down alot of people that dislike the idea of having to do manual labor (in a game) for months and years to then maybe have the opportunity to have fun

Bah…I have Alpha accounts up and running in 700 DPS battleships within about 2 weeks. In fact I have a 900 DPS fitting that my Omegas can skill into on just 2m SP.

[Tirador69]

@Altara_Zemara

I think you have no idea of the actual skill ceiling of Eve. You’ve barely been in the game 10 weeks…are are exhibiting classic noob Dunning Kruger where you think you comprehend way more than you actually do.

give me an example of what you think requires alot of knowledge to execute. im perfectly fine accpeting if im wrong.

@Altara_Zemara

Well of course it does. So why do you keep trying to compare it to games where you can just jump in and be SuperMutantHero with amazing kill ratio all in one day ?

i dare you to play tekken and get a higher winrate than 2% on day one (this will prob happen because someone dc’s just fyi)

@Altara_Zemara

Bah…I have Alpha accounts up and running in 700 DPS battleships within about 2 weeks. In fact I have a 900 DPS fitting that my Omegas can skill into on just 2m SP.

yes, i have seen your gnosis fit. now fight someone with 3 years gametime in a gnosis fit he did fit with his skills and tell me how that went.

its a very specific, limited fit which every other BC would run over, we both know that. also, earlier you were talking about

@Altara_Zemara

Thought I’d give an actual example…this is a 2.5 month old Alpha…thats like 10 weeks.

which means you know have an okish fit for ratting, or killing t1 cruiser with shitty skills after 10 WEEKS. Again, im not saying you are bad or dumb, im saying the game is in that regard.
btw, since you have an auto targetter, you should put it in between your guns, so it can absorb some heat

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tirador69

give me an example of what you think requires alot of knowledge to execute

No…that’s a silly way of arguing. Instead, I know for a fact that you can’t have comprehended the entire game in 10 weeks.

It is impossible that you have grasped every subtle nuance of fitting a ship, or even have the skills to do some of the more complex fittings, all in 10 weeks. It is impossible that you know every aspect of wardecs, scouting stations, hull timers, what ships to use, and so on…for example…all in 10 weeks. Rather, you exhibit the classic Dunning Kruger position of thinking that the 1% of stuff that you do grasp is way more than it actually is.

You would not be the first noob to think they have the entire game sussed in 10 weeks and blab their suggestions for ‘fixing the game’ based on a total lack of understanding of that actual game.

@Tirador69

i dare you to play tekken

Eve is not Tekken. I play Eve precisely because it is not just another generic carbon copy of some other game and precisely because people who think they have it all sussed in 10 weeks tend to leave and thus the remainder are in it for the long term and are worth the challenge.

Bottom line…the door is that ====> way if you are not happy. Go play Tekken.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tirador69

its a very specific, limited fit which every other BC would run over, we both know that. also, earlier you were talking about

It’s about as good as you’ll get for 60m ISK. Of course it’s never going to take on a Raven that can do 4500 DPS Alpha shot…its a throwaway ship that wipes the floor in a lot of PvE and at least has a fighting chance in some PvP. My point is more that many noobs tend to go for the Raven first, lose it, and give up on the game.

[Tirador69]

@Altara_Zemara

It is impossible that you have grasped every subtle nuance of fitting a ship, or even have the skills to do some of the more complex fittings, all in 10 weeks. It is impossible that you know every aspect of wardecs, scouting stations, hull timers, what ships to use, and so on…for example…all in 10 weeks.

fitting ships isnt science, but again, you are correct that i cant fit everything since the game doesnt allow for it. so i ve to use implants still for some fits.

and again, basically every ship you fit has a usefull fit and some weird garbage fits no one uses because there are other ships that do it better. there is a certain limit on which fit makes sense and i couldnt care less about what a cap fits, since i never plan on attacking/flying one in the first place. that doesnt mean its important to understand to know how the game works.

ya highsec wars, very interesting, since there are like 2-3 corps doing it. im a low/null/wh space guy

what exactly do you mean by hull timers? because surely you are not just simply talking about reinforcing a structure

[Tirador69]

@Altara_Zemara

It’s about as good as you’ll get for 60m ISK. Of course it’s never going to take on a Raven that can do 4500 DPS Alpha shot…its a throwaway ship that wipes the floor in a lot of PvE and at least has a fighting chance in some PvP. My point is more that many noobs tend to go for the Raven first, lose it, and give up on the game.

yea after 10 weeks of playtime. its a good fit for a newbie that doesnt have skills, but thats exactly my point. this alone takes alot of time and then you have a mediocre fit/hull at best, which you are limited to fly until you can ACTUALLY fly a normal ship, thats my entire point.

so now think from the persepective of someone that is playing for the first time, you talk to him and say “hey you can use this ship in a few weeks and then you are STUCK to it until you get your skills up which takes 2-10 months depending on what you want to fly, are you excited yet?”

[Altara_Zemara]

@Tirador69

so now think from the persepective of someone that is playing for the first time, you talk to him and say “hey you can use this ship in a few weeks and then you are STUCK to it until you get your skills up which takes 2-10 months depending on what you want to fly, are you excited yet?”

Meh…I spent my first weeks ratting and anomalies in a 29 DPS Condor. I had no idea one even could get a Condor to over 200 DPS in due course. I wasn’t sitting there thinking ’ Oh my God…that guy just flew past in a 2bn ISK 1400 DPS Paladin and its simply not fair that I don’t have one on day 1 ’

And why ? Because of the bit you singularly miss. I knew I was at the start of a long haul that would take weeks/months. And I also knew that every day that passed, I was one day further ahead of the 1 day old noobs.

And now, 2 years and 4 months later, I am worth billions, have over 600 kills ( and just 21 losses in total ) across my three main accounts, have over 200 ships including multiple battleships, have fought in numerous exciting battles in highsec, lowsec, nullsec, and wormholes…may possibly be an FC myself quite soon…and am thoroughly enjoying the game. Oh, and I am skilled for that 2bn Paladin too.

Was the wait all worth it ? Hell yes.

So you toodle off and play your Tekken and I’ll carry on enjoying and progressing in Eve. Oh…and can I have all your stuff.

[sambo_Inkura]

@Tirador69

correct me if im wrong, but taxes are paid by members earnings right?
so lets make an example based off of no local/restricted local

a guy in X rats in an ishtar ~200-400m a ship+fit
he gets ganked once or twice a day, because null is more active now and he doesnt have eyes on every entry gate.

lets just round it down to an average loss of 300m a day if he decids to stick with cheap fits and doesnt always get ganked twice, maybe escapes
the guy plays eve for lets say 4 hours a day and ishtar ratting is without escalations at around 100m
he makes 400m a day pays corp tax of 10% which nets him a total of 60m isk per day on average

not only is the corp making less money off of him (downtime due to ganking/avoiding ganks/replacing ship) he also will most likely not want to stick with a corp that doesnt protect him, now that he is actually exposed to danger. so now instead of having 40mx30 a month, this corps gets nothing from him, thats a total loss of 1,2b a month from one ishtar ratter.

so the corp also has less money for fun fleets, therefore they ll have to gather ishtar ratters in systems and guard them, but eventually they ll hit a certain point at which anos dont respawn quick enough, which leads them to expand in other systems, which they also have to protect now.

so while they dont directly replace the ships, i would argue ganking ratter will directly influence the corp wealth

you’ve just argued for why removing local will be a bad thing for the game overall.

@Tirador69

we did an ESS fleet, around 16 cruisers, so not really a big fleet.

i’m not sure what your arguing here. you knew taking that fight would get you hot blobbed. surprise surprise, you got hot blobbed.

i’ve had a Nyx dropped on my Dramiel in the past.

[Anthony_FatTony_Amico]

Why does it seem a lot of people who play this game are inherently lazy? Like one could argue you need to hussle in EVE like how people do in RL.

People don’t even know how to fit their ships but somehow are worth billions.
People don’t know how to read the MOTD.
People don’t know how to google/youtube basic questions about EVE.
People simply don’t know how to help themselves. (Incursions for example you can read everything in the MOTD and never say a peep after FC orients you. You don’t even need to say anything to attend SF fleet beyond simple commands/questions.)

• The people who hussle are the richest in the game.
• The people who hussle make the most ISK in the game.
• The people who outwork EVERYONE else have the most value as a person in the game.
• The people who continue to better themselves are inherently happy in the game.

As for me? I don’t have an ounce of time to start making 1bil/hr and setup all these alts and fund it partially with credit card swipes. More power to the people who want to multibox and make that ISK. They are just playing the game and I can’t blame them. I can’t sell myself out and start boxing 10+ alts. It just goes against my style.

I don’t know but this just came into my head after glancing at the various posts at the end here.

[Altara_Zemara]

People enjoy the game in all manner of ways, and I don’t think PLEX/grind is what really matters. What does matter is that there are those who don’t enjoy the game…will never enjoy the game…yet who hang about like a bad smell and poison the well for everyone else…

Poisoning the well

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

Back when a RL friend and i were playing together, he would multibox a noctis pilot to follow his main behind L4 missions while i chose not to and use GEO as my jack of all trades. Now i only have alpha alts just to run the soe arc every few months for usia. Im happy with my playstyle of one actual main character

[Tirador69]

@Altara_Zemara

Meh…I spent my first weeks ratting and anomalies in a 29 DPS Condor.

nah you did not just say that, thats hillarious and also explains why you think everyone needs years to understand basic things, lmao

[Tirador69]

@sambo_Inkura

you’ve just argued for why removing local will be a bad thing for the game overall.

well, why?

[Anthony_FatTony_Amico]

Same I am just a jack of all trades who happens to like Caldari a bit more.

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

2011 i was shoe horned into getting a drake and i was told to focus on the Magic 14 ONLY when i had no other skills training. To this day when i mentor new pilots if they have a ship they want, i tell them ship skills, weapon skills, then a m14 skill if necessary.