Have they? It’s just anecdotal evidence but I just saw a CONDI VNI fly around high sec with no PIRAT anywhere. I see how BASTN, TNT, LAWN and INIT are not perma-wardec’d any longer, while they used to be in the past. What is your measurement of strength? From what I see, botting has not helped in keeping the CFC under permanent wardec in recent years, though. I do not know about the advantages that you see but they do not materialize before my eyes, unfortunately.
Don’t get me wrong, though: I am against botting, I just don’t see how it helped PIRAT in the things that I care about what they should do.
So you do not care about war decs then, which is not what he was saying, were you virtue signalling there? Because his comment was purely on the impact of a war dec alliance aided by massive cash flows from botting, go read it again.
Well I read the original thread on Reddit with the details put forward by the player who exposed who it was. It was damn compelling evidence, hardly anecdotal…, but I think that was you saying something about the CFC.
Things have changed in hisec, as Pandemic Horde showed in hisec with the wars in Perimeter that Nullsec has an interest in hisec, I would think fear is part of that, because if they kept doing the war dec then the Goons will decide to go after them, another possibility is lulling them into a sense of security, do you know how many people do not check for war decs before going to hisec., it is to let people make mistakes. War deckers are pretty clever, so what you think it is due to is likely wrong.
I explained it above, significant increase in EHP, repair rates, tackle ability and damage, but if it helps run along and look at their losses then think about the cost in terms of fitting, then compare against what they are normally fighting in hisec and while they may get a certain level of money from protection money activities in hisec, it is not enough obviously because why would he be botting then?
No. In the face of getting steamrolled by CFC yet again with their hundreds of titans and thousands of supers and capitals, the petty money that CEO has farmed is insignificant to my mind.
That’s false equivalency.
I dont expect you to care or see why.
I dont give a fk if its CEO of PIRAT, CFC or your grandmother.
I hate anyone that bots, or supports them.
Period.
And so should you.
I am legit, personally, angry at ShtirliZZ, because he has been breaking the rules we both signed to agree with, for years, and has subsequently contributed to the ruination of a game I pay to play and love.
Furthermore Im also legit, personally, angry at anyone in PIRAT or outside of it, that was complicit to his breach of contract that we all signed, and knowingly benefited off it.
As constrained by forum/game rules, the strongest repudiation and gesture of my contempt that I can issue here, is I would not drink with any of them.
Thats how much I hate people that bot, or support them.
I suppose two of the determining factors for a corp/alliance ban are what percentage of the total income of an entity is from botting as well as the number of people involved. Only CCP and those involved really know this data.
Believe it or not there are plenty of groups, running well fitted ships with massive amount of active wars other then PIRAT, does this mean they all must be botting aswell?
The issue I have with this thread is people seem to be implying that PIRATs wars have been solely funded on these accusations and yet again putting another black cloud over war decs, then try and find any excuse to say “must be funded by botting”.
the war dec system is crap and everyone has been screaming at fozzie to do something about it… which he’s placed on his list and keeps knocking that item down the list…so its borked for them to take advantage of… just another thing to do… when ever ccp feels its time to do it.
Noted. Some have indeed done so.
We dont know if botting has funded the spam wardec modus operandi of PIRAT, but it is possible (infact plausible) it has.
I cba to check the CEOs Nyx bot fleets corp tag, but if they are in PIRAT or affiliates, and if tax rate has ever been above 0% tax rate, then this bot operation will have funnelled isk directly into PIRAT or associated corp coffers.
What is most important now, is that CCP follows the isk trail, and determines how much of it was from botting, and who was complicit in laundering that isk, and if they also are culpable towards punitive actions.
Its possible ShtirliZZ has just been lining his own pockets with this Nyx bot farm for years, and that nobody else knew about it and/or benefited from that isk (but unlikely).
CCP policy is ambiguous/unclear on other players that possibly knew about illegal actions and/or benefiting from them, being in violation of TOS/EULA, or its “spirit”.
In light of recent bot drama/problems, this may escalate (probably should) into a benchmark/precedent case, especially as it involves a prominent CEO, and the extent of the botting as so long-lasting and significant in value generated, not just on the part of the CEO, but everyone that knew about it and/or benefited from it.
If the CEO is running a trillion isk bot operation without detection/reporting, it can validly be asked how many others where complicit/beneficiaries, or themselves are/where running bot operations.
I did some digging into a number of war deckers I found that some of the players who had been in different groups talked about a person who was funding them and expecting a certain level of performance. That was from the English speaking war deckers of course, not from PIRAT who are mainly Russian.
But to answer that question, I don’t know, I suspect that botting could be involved in some areas, PIRAT seems systematic, but I was also aware that PIRAT was based more around Amarr and that they were more agressive in many ways in terms of blowing stuff up as compared to VMG which is your alliance, which mainly hangs around Jita which has richer people to plunder and extort, you were catching JF’s, am I saying VMG is botting, well I see no evidence of that.
From my perspective the black cloud is purely over PIRAT because it has been proved that they funded and enhanced the efficiency of their operations from botting, you cannot deny that and it would be foolish to do so. However if people reasonably have the question for other hisec war deckers then that is fair enough, perhaps CCP will have a look just in case, but I do not for one moment think that all war deckers are botting, that is as foolish as saying all of the Imperium is funded by botting.
I have contacts and alliance mates who have dropped on their supers and rorquals I can assure you that not one was botting that they were on, because they did what any player would do, light cyno’s, use the PANIC module, try and fail to put their drones in depots etc.
So to be blunt I have a suspicion that others may be funding part of their operation by botting, but I would not throw around the comment ‘must be funded by botting!’
The war dec system is not crap, over all it is a fairly good mechanic which may need adjustment in some areas, the issue is that in hisec there is no reason to fight and what is mainly in hisec is not able to fight, it is just mainly a system to enable kill farming by blanket war deckers and damn boring it is now. My feeling is that they have to improve hisec.
Unfortunately I would have to disagree, being on the receiving end of all the hate through the mechanics the primary complaints surround the fact people feel forced into PVP and that they want safety, people will never have a reason to WANT to fight against mercenaries, people can coat it in as many ways as they want but the truth is they just don’t want to be involved in any PVP activity and farm missions in peace.
You maybe referring to the big contract all merc’s had at the time of the big goon war and lets not mention the ISK made through loot, other then this i’m not aware of anyone funding other then the usual protection contracts etc…
Most mercenaries groups have no issues funding war costs and probably still able to fund them from the big goon contract. Then you have to remember alot of us have other accounts in null sec, industry, trading, wormhole. I would be very surprised if any of it had to be funded by botting.
Sorry am I supposed to be upset that people hate and react to the fact that you are forcing them to PvP? Grow up, take responsibility for your actions in game and on the forums.
There are very good reasons not to fight war deckers, being in bling fitted ships with neutral RR on call is one, going after fast lockers easy GTFO ships is another and add to that simple fact that many of the people you war dec are not able to PvP then what do you expect? I found many players could not be bothered either, you were just not interesting in any shape or form.
No I am not referring to that at all, I had heard of something like that but had no real confirmation or details.
I am referring to the fact that I spoke to a number of players who have been in merc groups and listened to what they said about funding. And a nice example for you, were you aware that Pitboss of the Orphanage had all four of the Command ship BPO’s (he sold one from what I heard though), come on stop it, you are not dealing with someone who does not know stuff like this.
Of course many of you have accounts in nullsec, do indy, Jita trading etc., but could you seriously confirm to me that none of them are botting in any way? I can’t confirm to you that they are botting and neither would I make that comment.
Link please, or is that just another blast of hot air and angst…
Not what the thread is about, the OP is pointing out the impact that this botting had in making PIRAT so successful and that is important, the OP also detailed CCP Falcons post in terms of the impact of botting, but before you take me out of context CCP Falcon makes no mention of PIRAT and nor should he, the OP did however.
I said that botting is bad and it should be punished.
I do not agree with you because you are as lame as your “master counter botting” solution is. You’ve played lineage 2 on too many private servers.
This was reason enough for you to try and twist my words and throw ■■■■ at me. So how about you go back devising a new anti-botting solution ? The current one is useless.
It’s just anecdotal evidence but I just saw a CONDI VNI fly around high sec with no PIRAT anywhere. I see how BASTN, TNT, LAWN and INIT are not perma-wardec’d any longer, while they used to be in the past. What is your measurement of strength? From what I see, botting has not helped in keeping the CFC under permanent wardec in recent years, though. I do not know about the advantages that you see but they do not materialize before my eyes, unfortunately.