Perspectives and priorities I guess.
You point that one link in the chain and call it pve , I point the five links preceding it, the 5 successive, and say the chain isn’t just that link.
Unless you’re really religious about never buying from anyone but an npc corp, but I didn’t really consider that in my first post.
Sure, the action of industry itself is not pvp, but it’s not pve either, it’s not versus anything. It’s opening a menu and clicking a few buttons.
At least whenever you interact with the market, that is clearly PVP. So if you would have that option to disable any PVP, it should include disablement for market interaction.
And it gets worse. If there would be such an option and you had ever activated it only once in your EVE career, you need to be fordidden to interact ever again from that point in time with the market. Otherwise you could farm stuff in a protected way and then activate market interaction PVP for a short time and profit from your protected farmed stuff, destroying the whole economy of EVE. And it could not be decided which items you acquired during the protected phase that absolutely should never be possible to be ever sold on the market.
That is largely my concern too
The player driven market and economy is one of EVEs biggest features afterall…
I sometimes think that EvE isn’t a spaceship simulator, it’s an economy simulation with spaceships as a framing device.
given all the ingame politics and power structures, it is more like an “society simulator” that includes economics and places the whole setup inside some sci-fi lore.
That definitely rings true, but I personally haven’t engaged in high level politics. And there is just too much lul pvp for me to buy in fully into calling it a society 
Edit:
These require resources, which gathering them impacts the market and is thus PvP.
What do you do with the materials you get here? It eventually ends up impacting the market whether you sell them directly or make something out of them, thus it is PvP.
Mission runners buy and sell on the market with the loot they get from these missions, thus participate in PvP.
Only every ship, module, missile and mining crystal. There are few items being bought by NPCs and fewer items being sold by NPCs.
Lol I just remembered a thought I had the other day that I feel applies, this isn’t a PvP game, or a PvE game, it’s an EvE game! Everyone versus Everything
You are 10,000% correct.
It’s probably going to be more like “mock and ridicule” than “whine and complain”. This won’t happen, so there’s nothing to complain about.
If you want to be a pacifist, you can be a pacifist right now, but what you’re actually asking for is a way to force other players to be pacifistic towards you.
OK, time to stop this ‘Merry-Go-Round’…
The links are:
There’s actually a PvE Trade Industry run entirely by NPC Buy / Sell Market orders…
Resources for doing that content can be gained from NPC’s with no market involvement, thus making it PvE…
Also nice try at moving the goal posts by trying to include Market / Trade content in an attempt to say it’s PvP…
Actually there’s no impact on the Market if those items are used personally for production…
Again, nice try trying to include a different type of content in an attempt to say it’s PvP…
Once again you try to include Market / Trade content in an attempt to say it’s PvP…
Thanks for the confirmation… Like I said, not everything on the Market is put there by players… By the way, there’s a lot of NPC Market orders for a large variety of items..
I could go further with this debate but it’s almost as old as this game and quite frankly, I just don’t care anymore…
The entire game is geared towards destroying ships, structures, and things inside of those things. That is when one is not playing the minigame of exploration. Even then you can lose a ship..
If you are looking for a more pacifist game with spaceships. I am sure there are more than a few for you to check out. What you propose would fundamentally change the game. A game that those of us here like. As the basic premise of the game has never changed. What you have proposed in you OG post is not something that I would care to support.
Also what is on the market is 95%-98% player made. What someone does with the ships, modules, and ammo is up to the user. Whether it is PVE or PVP. If there is a war. Makes my filthy arms dealer heart grow warm. Sure I will see an uptick or if gankers have been really busy. I might see a few more cheap ships being sold. But here is the kicker. I was selling herons, probes and Imicus like there was barn on fire. All used in exploration.
But the market does not determine PVP or even PVE. That is up to the players themselves. Manufacturers/traders like myself only respond to what is happening in the game. We are not engaged in either PVP or PVE when making and selling something. We do not go out and blow things up, well not all the time..LOL
When a player is engaged in trading. It is about how much Isk one can make and beggar the other guy. Cut throat? Yer damn right. In the end any trader is responding to what is happening in the game. Buying and selling what other players want.
All you’re doing is taking exceptions to the rule and declaring, ‘this one step in the whole process is PvE, therefore the whole process is PvE.’ That’s utterly ridiculous and disingenuous.
So I figured there would be a lot of talk about this. Perhaps what many are missing, as I stated, is that if something like this were implemented, there would be a cooldown and a maximum time allowed to be active per the cooldown. Therefore, if you’re in Low sec mining away or doing whatever, when the timer runs out —your free game —you have to make it back to a central hub. This pacifism could be implemented not necessarily in high sec, but in low and null sec. Also, it’s not that you won’t lose ships, NPC agents and roaming NPCs are sometimes enough for an ill-prepared player to be destroyed. You’re not deemed invulnerable, just safe from would-be assailants and ridiculous gate campers, who are just there to be cruel. Maybe, if people were more diplomatic instead of brutal and rude, this wouldn’t need to be a thing (of course, the human race is warmongering anyway). As stated in my initial post, it’s not that PvP (that’s Player vs Player, not markets and environment) would be downgraded, because those who are already full of themselves with their armada of ships and money wouldn’t care. It’s for the people like me who don’t necessarily interact with the market anyway, because it’s all over-inflated by people; I have no problem buying from NPC vendors and selling to them. The currency is not my concern; I enjoy exploring, which is part of the game, but it is not possible because of the brutality of other players who give you no chance.
Your suggestion is wholly antithetical to the core tenets of the game, regardless of what arbitrary restrictions you choose to place on it.
Nobody is missing it, it just doesn’t matter.
You’re supposed to get killed by those guys, sorry. If you would prefer to not get killed by those guys, the recommended course of action is typically to get good.
No I’m not…
Your attempt to merge entirely different contents as one content just so you can portray it as PvP is foolish and incorrect…
Just because during Chess there are moves where my piece doesn’t capture an enemy piece doesn’t mean that those moves (or the entire game) are not a competitive game against another player.
It’s all part of a whole game, which in both EVE’s case and the case of Chess is a competitive game against other players.
I gotta agree with FlyingDick on this, DeMichael. With all due respect. Those market items seeded by the NPCs are a minority of all items on sale, and as I’m understanding you can’t turn profits on any of them. (For simplicity’s sake I am talking only about market items here in this discussion, not about rat drops, or hacking loot, which, technically are also NPC-origin items tradable on the market).
So what are we talking about here exactly? Some trade goods are seeded by NPCs. What are those – Wheat, Antibiotics, Frozen Food – just as a few examples. None of these are used for anything in the game, other than just for keeping them in your hangar for roleplay or just because you wanna own them. Their supply is technically infinite, they’re cheap, and they have no value in the game. Most importantly: You can’t sell that NPC item back to a player for more amount of ISK you used to buy it or generate new items from it for profit. This is what makes them worthless in terms of market viability.
Skills, yes skills are more important and they’re seeded mostly by NPCs, but I believe there’s a good reason for that – to avoid a situation where some player-run corporation or an alliance will profit from something that should be a free right for every EVE player – free access to skills (not free as in not costing anything, but free as in it will always be available in the game). Again, you can’t sell an NPC-seeded skill back to a player for more than you paid for it. Making it worthless with regards to trading.
Blueprint originals – now this is the most important thing on this list, in my opinion. You can buy BPOs from NPCs and turn a profit on them. So this is where DeMichael’s point is most relevant. But, again – you will only turn profit on modified BPOs, not on 0/0 NPC-value BPOs. A researched BPO is no longer an NPC item. A player has interacted with it (making any subsequent activities with it PVP). Most importantly, you can’t sell the same unresearched BPO back to a player for more ISK than you paid for it. This is a defining feature of NPC-seeded items. You can’t profit on them, making them worthless for trading.
Have I left any of the NPC items out that are relevant to the point? DeMichael Crimson – I don’t mean to start arguing with you, we’ve respectfully conversed on these forums before and I hope that can continue even after this post. If you have any specific NPC items in mind with regards to your point, then I’d like to hear which ones specifically you meant. I’m genuinely interested as I am a trader and maybe I’m not aware of all the NPC market items even.
My point being – yes NPC-seeded items exist. You can buy them and own them. But you can’t generate profts on those items. Market may not be PVP-only in those terms, but trading is. That’s the difference.
