Panic Buttons for ships that are targeted for Ganking

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
101

This is nonsensical - profit does not erase cost. Profit is what is left of your income after accounting for costs, which literally means you paid for things (either in ISK, or time, or effort) but have some money left over. What are you trying to say here?

Edit to add: so, I was curious and ran some numbers using a prolific CODE. pilot who has fairly consistent ganking hours and location (18:00-ish to 02:00-ish EVE time in Poinen and Obanen).

Jan 27 18:00 to Jan 28 02:00 (8 hours) for Luna Nightblood per zKillboard:
Losses: 601,862,273.51 (includes FacPo kills and CONCORD kills)
ESTIMATED earnings (dropped loot value divided equally between attackers and an assumed single hauler): 1,047,005,516.64
Profit: 445,143,243.13
Hourly profit: 55,642,905.40

The above doesn’t account for any scouting scanner who has to be paid, nor for the true value of a 180-day SKIN that had a 0.01 isk value on zKillboard. There were 3-4 attackers on three of the four killmails; the fourth was solo. There were no other CODE. ganks in Poinen or Obanen during this period, so Luna was in on all ganks during the examined window of time.

So… yeah. I don’t really find 55m isk/h stalking a trade route for prey to be an excessive profit margin for high-sec by any means. It simply comes at a cost to other players in addition to the ganker. Are there days where the gankers get better profits? Sure, when they get lucky on loot drops on a juicy target. But they can just as often get less, when a target doesn’t drop the good stuff. Highlighting the two highest value kills of the night:

125m dropped, 2,423m destroyed (excluding ship hull)

950m dropped, 1,079m destroyed (excluding ship hull)

102

NCK is trolling in this thread (and a few others about ganking).

But sure, I’ll call that out because ganking isn’t difficult. Doing it, especially for profit, takes organisation, but so many targets make themselves easy to gank.

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103

Ganking is one of the easiest things anyone can do. How much does a catalyst cost. There are T1 and T2 fits so…

Multibox it i agree takes more skill but the act of ganking is easy. I’d even say its lazy gameplay.

104

So they never fail without help?

I don’t think so. There are loads of unassisted failures.

I will admit though, SOME ganking is easy. But I have been speaking generally.

105

Nice short weak post. Nothing like you have gone after me. Lame.

106

So costs haunt you forever. You pay 100 dollars for materials, make an item, sell it for 500 dollars and that initial 100 dollar investment perpetually ruins your ability to repeat the process. No. The cost is erased and now you have 400 dollars in your pocket to freely use as you will. The cost vanished as per the equation. You subtracted the cost from the income and the income sucked it all up. Its gone. It got erased.

Seems your life goal is to just countermand me at every turn. I wish you would get over it.

107

Say you started with $100, and spent all $100 to make something you sell for $500. You aren’t now $500 richer than you started - you are $400 richer than you started. The cost didn’t just disappear, it had an impact on your wallet. Yes, you have more money than when you started, but it still is true that you had to spend money to make money. There is a reason it is only called profit after accounting for costs. I don’t know why you keep treating it as if the cost didn’t happen and doesn’t matter.

Gross income is a bad measure of reward; costs need to be accounted for in determining the actual profit of an activity. Did you even look at the example I posted?

108

And nothing I said sounded anything like that. I clearly said 400 dollars to use freely (cause that is sheer profit), although you do still have 500 dollars in your pocket after the sale.

I am NOT. I subtracted cost from income. It happened. Do you understand the concept of time??? The cost is in the past. In the now, for practical intents and purposes the cost is gone. Its been covered. Its past tense. Its been erased. Eliminated. Its only relevence to the here and now is in accounting and tax filings.

Discussing this further with you is utterly pointless. You aren’t listening or even trying to understand but just harping on one semantic you chose among others that exist so you can feel like you got one over on me or something. Its annoying, pathetic and gotten to the point of trolling.

If you want to keep talking about it, go ahead. Just stop replying to me directly or quoting me directly.

109

This is what you said. Profit doesn’t mean cost was zero. It means you made more than you spent. Profit doesn’t erase cost - it’s actually the reverse, where costs reduce profits.

If you don’t want people to call you on illogical, fallacious statements, then stop making them.

110

PLEASE STOP REPLYING TO ME ON THIS MATTER.

111

So Lis didn’t bypass the point about cost in her post, if you are now including cost as part of profit in yours.

As we’ve been writing, she directly addressed it.

But idiots will idiot I guess, so the cycle of trying to dismiss it will continue I’m sure.

112

Then please stop making fallacious statements.

This is an open forum and I do have the CCP-granted right to engage in discussion here. I have not infringed on any rules. You posted nonsense and I countered it. You don’t have to like it, but that doesn’t remove my right to make the posts.

If you don’t want to read my replies, block me.

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113

Look man, the original point was about ganking being cheap. Cheap has at least three facets/meanings.

  1. a cost so low even poor people can afford it
  2. a cost that is low relative to the benefits (for example, profit)
  3. a cost that is low relative to the disposable wealth of the speaker

It was obvious the original poster of the point meant meaning 1. Lis drug in meaning 2 out of left field and you fools ran with it, are in denial of the fact you got mislead, and further you don’t even understand the relationship even Lis had incorrectly brought up meaning 2.

And since we have been on this for near half the thread now, don’t take it back to the first related comments and pretend my posts from then to now never happened.

In other words, NO, I have not changed my mind about jack. I am just telling you how you are wrong even within the confines of your own wrongness.

114

Since you made no further points on the “cheap/cost” topic addressed to me its as if you understood what I wrote.

But since you think I want to read none of your replies or posts on the forum at all, its as if you didn’t understand what I wrote. (sigh)

115

Wrong as usual.

The point that Lis made was:

That was his very first post in the thread.

To which you went immediately replied:

Then it’s been pointed ouit multiple times, and even you seem able to argue the point, profit includes cost.

But continuing to argue is the typical total dickward approach we’ve come to expect from you, so I’m sure you’ll continue to argue that blue is red (figuratively), because idiots will idiot and so you’ll continue to idiot like a fool.

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116

Oh for the love of Bob.

I could get more out of talking to a brick.

“Did you ever ganked anyone with profit?” —wasn’t

I am done with this.

117

Actually, it was.

Wrong again (guess what…no surprise there).

Whatever kinky stuff you’re into is fine man. No need to bring it to the forum though.

118

Was the first comment of the thread.

Was the comment Lis replied to.

As we can see, he did not say “cheap”, as I made it seem, but its clear that is what he meant. Of course not all ganking is cheap, but plenty is.

But other than posting those basic, demonstrable facts, I am done. Not arguing opinions on that matter any more.

119

No one said Lis said cheap.

One more time for the dummy.

Lis asked if:

Which you then quoted and asked

Then when it was pointed out multiple times that the concept of profit includes cost, so no it wasn’t bypassed, you then used the argument of subtracting cost from income as part of profit.

How stupid do you have to be to argue when you are just wrong. A normal person would just eat humble pie and acknowledge they made a mistake. You’ll just idiot though, because idiots idiot.

120

Except that I gave an example of ganking expenses that directly refutes this argument. 600m isk in losses for 1 night of ganking for a single pilot, with an hourly per-character profit of less thank 60m isk. How is that cheap?!