I have flown a lot of ships in lowsec, though not freighters, I tended to avoid using them in lowsec, DST’s with cloak MWD and BR’s work for me. In fact I would suggest that a freighter is not the most smart ship to use unless you are operating in systems that are normally totally empty or that you have serious backup, and I have seen people do just that.
The rules are not the same…
Except what is that team going to do in Hisec, I know what they can do in lowsec. I guess sit there and fiddle with the security settings, green to red perhaps, but what else?
It is all about this:
And this:
And this:
And this made me chuckle:
So true Blade Runner, I like you!
I agree, the I win button needs to go.
In fact that is what they are saying.
Anyway it is interesting to see people like Bronson who is a player that takes risk, defend something that is all about no risk.
wtf ? No the purpose I bought them is to move high-volume stuff around places for reasons.
If its purpose was be to be defenseless, it would have 1 hp per layer.
So NO it’s not supposed to be defenseless. This is just from your perspective that freighters should only be defenseless pinata. sooo… well it makes no sense.
please keep your personal aggression for yourself. You are doing nobody a good thing, not even you. I told you already, ignore the trolls, you just don’t care about the stupid arguments. They are not here to discuss, there are here to prevent discussion. So ignore them, or else you play their game.
Wow, this is. . . this is a remarkably unique argument. Where are you getting the idea that something must have 1 HP per layer in order to qualify as “defenseless”?
Thank you for catching the error in my logic. I chose my words poorly. The point I was trying to make wasn’t that all pilots taking less than 10 minutes are competent and prepared, but that by Merin’s logic at least some likely would be. And, to me, that seems inconsistent with arbitrarily placing an “emergency warp” timer at only 2 minutes.
When you’re dealing with bulk goods, and you have sufficient support, using a freighter to move everything at once, even in losec, generally makes the most sense. If you’re flying solo or don’t have the backup to match what you’re coming up against, I wholly agree with you, a Transport or a Jump Freighter is a much better choice.
But my point was this: if you get caught while hauling in a freighter, you’re generally toast. This is true no matter where you’re flying. That is the rule I was referring to: don’t get caught.
And this, @Bronson_Hughes sums up the WHOLE point of those ever-growing debate.
‘Don’t fly what you cannot afford to lose!’
For the majority of players in low/null/wh, we never had a problem with that mechanics. Even in the point of view of FCs being bumped off their mark in daily fleets, that’s no biggy, for we’re aware that bumping also works in favor in other Pvp instances. And when faced with HS Gank, we would just kill, or be killed and move on - big fun really, gf! So to the majority, there is no ‘issue’ that need ‘fixing’.
And, I believe we have tried to educate those Freighters-Club (the name chosen for this conglomerate), with various possible alternatives - but they won’t budge. So be it.
I strongly doubt that CCP will look into troubling our Pvp values in order to satisfy the minority, unless ofc, if it’s beneficial for us. This universe, will keep on rolling in favour of Pvpers, because our endeavors are profitable to the game, and Pvp enthusiasts have generated headlines that Promotes the game, and attracts new subs. While I cannot recall, that I have ever come across an Popular article, read by thousands, and appealing for subs; concerning ‘Freighting in Eve online’.
On a side note for all, Multiboxing is permitted within some limits. Please read ahead
(Maybe they have udpated/refined their ruling over the years).
It’s an exaggerated statement, but the point is true: freighters have deliberately been given a giant HP pool so they aren’t defenseless, so that it takes a significant effort to kill them. If the intent was for them to be defenseless and depend entirely on successful scouting and escort then they wouldn’t have so much HP that a reasonably loaded freighter costs too much to suicide gank for it to be a profitable target.
Err, no. Not at all. I picked 10+ minutes because that’s clearly way past the point where “competent and prepared” applies, but that doesn’t at all mean that some of the players between 2 and 10 minutes qualify. IMO a competent group has their attack ready to go when the target jumps in, and the time between jump in and killmail is under 30 seconds. A two-minute timer ensures that all competent and prepared groups are unaffected by the change, with plenty of margin just to be sure that we err on the side of caution. Some less-competent groups will still get kills within the two-minute timer, but that’s clearly at the point where you aren’t prepared for the attack and are scrambling to get into position before the target escapes. And if you’re taking 10+ minutes, well, you’re just bad at EVE and deserve no consideration.
Can you tell me the difference between bumping a fast moving agile BS and a large freighter moving in a fixed direction? You obviously don’t know based on that little gem.
The support that you have in lowsec to remove tackle has no ability to do so in hisec.
A lot of people get bumped for ten to twenty minutes or more by bumpers and are not toast because they are trying to do ransom or trick duel bumps and don’t have the ability to actually gank. But nothing happens to the bumpers, they can do this with no consequences.
So don’t get caught means docking up and logging or not using freighters period.
Don’t get caught means so much more than just docking up, and hisec support most certainly can deal with hisec tackle (i.e. bumpers).
Scouts are your friend. If they see a Mach or a Nomen on a gate in your path, find another route. If they’re at a chokepoint so there is no other path, yes, you wait them out. (Incidentally, this is exactly the same thing you’d do in losec or null if you didn’t have combat support or access to a jump bridge. This is not unique to bumping in hisec.)
You keep saying that you can’t shoot the bumpers. This is incorrect. Remember, this is hisec, so you don’t need to kill the tackle, all you need to do is interfere with the bumping long enough to get into warp. This is remarkably easy to do if you have friends (or alts) in disposable webbing frigates (you do have a few with you already to scout and help web you into warp faster, right?) and are willing to suck up dealing with the distaste of “going red” to save your freighter.
If they don’t gank the freighter and eventually let it go, why should there be consequences for the bumper? That’s ten to twenty minutes that the freighter pilot could have been calling in reinforcements to help. If they just choose to sit there and do nothing, there should be no consequences.
Because they are actively forcing a player to remain on grid, which is the only and sole usage of a point and thus should incur a concordokken interaction.
They are effectively bypassing concordokken interaction, because the mechanism is bad and allows it.
It’s not “clever” usage, it’s “abusing a hole in a poorly implemented mechanism”
you can’t. Contracts have an expiry and you can’t wait for them to expire less you lose much more than your freighter is worth. So, no, you can’t choose your path/time of action.
This won’t help. A freighter needs more time to exit bump + warp (around 1min) than a suicide webbing frigate (or several) can bring you. (30s at max, assuming you can keep at the mach point zone with SCRAM and web and your frig does not get insta blapped by sentries)
Also a gameplay that requires to get criminal in order to prevent a gank is intrinsically absurd, as criminal prevent your alts from jumping the next system for 15 min, and require to have spare ships in EVERY system on the road.
If you’re foolish enough to take a contract with such a short timeline without having ensured that the route is clear, you deserve to lose it. That’s right up there with “Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose.”
My experience with doing exactly this says otherwise. (I know I know, one pilot’s experience isn’t conclusive data, but it’s all I have to offer.) 1-2 webs on the freighter to slow it down, 2 webbing frigates on the bumper, staggered to extend the effect. Yes, that’s a 4 pilot operation (freighter plus friendly webber plus 2x suicide webbers), but the folks wanting to gank you are going to bring a lot more than that. Having said that, if you’ve been bumped so badly that you need a minute or more to slow down and get into warp unassisted, then yes, this probably won’t work. You probably also got bumped multiple times too when means your support was slow.
Also, hisec requires gankers to go criminal to attack your freighter. We all agree that this make sense. Why is it so absurd to also go criminal to launch a pre-emptive strike to save your freighter?
If you find it absurd or not fit to your desires or expectations, don’t feel obligated to stay. Eve online, afterall is known to be a tough game, it’s okay if you’re not up for it.
That’s just a free, baseless affirmation, with actually no meaning.
Sorry, but this just means nothing at all. It’s just a succession of words with no meaning that are put together like the total made sense. It does not.
Protip : in eve if you fly a ship you can lose it. “deserve” is the same as “can” so it’s just … useless ? According to you, playing eve is foolish. Seriously, WTF ?
Same, general and actually meaningless personal aggression.
“if you don’t like how it is you can leave” Well if you don’t like me saying how I don’t like it you should leave first, following you own advice …
Hmm that is not what I implied. But be free to call in an ISD to be the judge.
And besides, what you, haulers should understand, is that CODE is very experienced and determined to their cause - whether via bumping or not, they will manage to gank you. They have spies and alts everywhere, 30 jumps away they will already know when, where and how to get to their target. There’s no escape, other than pay their ransom.
Yet that’s actually what you said, “if you don’t like it leave the game”. Now, you not realizing the true meaning of your affirmation is not something that surprises me, seeing as many CODE are unable to bear the minimum understanding of logics and propagate fallacies like the wind carries straw(men).
I am not a hauler. You see, that’s another example of your lack of logical sense. You can’t accept that your idea are wrong and that people may say they are wrong without having a nested interest, because that’s actually how you behave.
Whenever someone points the fail in your arguments, you just go “but YOU, YOU” . That’s only another proof of you being a logical failure. So now, if you don’t like me disagreeing with you, you are free to leave the forum, according to your own words.
Some people are willing to come with any absurdities just to save and keep their iwin button. Perma-bumping is an real issue, it have no counter and need to be fixed.
Let’s hope that the devs will find the time and will to finish what they started and to implement 3 minutes warp timer, or a solution like the one i suggested in this topic.