Player Bounties

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@tutucox_Khamsi

was reaaaaly bad at the game

His videos can beat up your videos.

You’re just jealous of the epic beard.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Kezrai_Charzai

His videos can beat up your videos.
You’re just jealous of the epic beard.

my videos suck
i have a majestic beard to , but i just shaved because after a month or so the hair start to enter in my nose and drives me crazy
i will spare you of my problems IRL
but since you bring the subject i will say

wen i started to play eve i was a young lad full of life , now im an old guy

pro tip , the 30s are FINE , the 40s are … well… 6/10

[Altara_Zemara]

Oh…it doesn’t surprise me that ( as with much in Eve ) bounties had some stupidly long and complex process. I mean, in something bordering on reality, you could just show up and blap someone’s station, for example. But noooo…not in Eve. You have to declare war, wait 24 hours, destroy the shields, at which point the station suddenly becomes ‘invulnerable’ despite having shields blapped, and then you have to return 3 days later during which time the shields were down, nobody was fixing them, yet nobody could fire a shot, and then proceed to destroy the hull. Phew ! I guess in the Eve universe nobody ever just pushed back a border gate and rolled the tanks in.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Destiny_Corrupted

That’s just not true.

I know it isn’t. I’m talking about a sane bounty system. You know, one in which the hit man doesn’t get paid more if the target is driving a Mercedes than if they are driving a beat up old Ford Escort. Anyone think Don Corleone really cares ?

[Kezrai_Charzai]

@Altara_Zemara

I guess in the Eve universe nobody ever just pushed back a border gate and rolled the tanks in.

Blitzkrieg is passé, Sitzkrieg is the new wave.

Players have so much more time to be social if they have to sit pointlessly in space for no good reason at all.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Altara_Zemara

I know it isn’t. I’m talking about a sane bounty system. You know, one in which the hit man doesn’t get paid more if the target is driving a Mercedes than if they are driving a beat up old Ford Escort.

yeah but we are imortal
the only weight the bounty could hold is wen you are a carebear and fear to lose your paladin or mining barge
if you live in low there is no danger
null … same

if you fly in a punisher , ■■■■ it …

so its pointless

[Altara_Zemara]

@Kezrai_Charzai

Blitzkrieg is passé

‘Mein gott…ze French have gone into invulnerability mode !’

[tutucox_Khamsi]

9 9 9 9 9 !!!

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Altara_Zemara

I know it isn’t. I’m talking about a sane bounty system. You know, one in which the hit man doesn’t get paid more if the target is driving a Mercedes than if they are driving a beat up old Ford Escort.

A realistic bounty system just doesn’t work in a setting where the target gets to wake up again after being killed. So in EVE, a percentage payout system is the next best thing, but that in itself isn’t enough of an incentive for players to seek out bounty targets specifically, because the amounts are limited in scope before it’s viable for the targets to self-collect.

The best solution I can think of is changing the kill right system to not result in a suspect flag, but rather a limited engagement between the kill right target and the bounty hunter. If the kill right target dies to the bounty hunter, they do not get an insurance payout, but the bounty has a bigger payout ratio of the value of the total assets lost. In exchange, the bounty hunter isn’t protected by CONCORD against pre-emptive attacks by the kill right target. It would be a system with increased risks and rewards for both parties. Would also go well with a nice in-game bounty hunter interface where bounty hunters can accept contracts, their efficiency is tracked, etc. Could also have a system in which it’s possible for the kill right target to pay a fine if the bounty hunter successfully defeats them (but doesn’t yet kill them), in which the original kill right owner is compensated, and the bounty hunter gets paid, but the kill right targets gets to avoid a kill board loss because the engagement is ended when they pay the fee through the interface.

CCP will never implement anything like this, though. The current system works “great” in their minds. In fact, if anything, they might simply remove what we have instead as part of the slow decommissioning of high-sec PvP we’re experiencing as time goes on.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Destiny_Corrupted

A realistic bounty system just doesn’t work in a setting where the target gets to wake up again after being killed. So in EVE, a percentage payout system is the next best thing, but that in itself isn’t enough of an incentive for players to seek out bounty targets specifically, because the amounts are limited in scope before it’s viable for the targets to self-collect.

Sure, but then the prior bounty system meant a person could be killed a dozen times on the basis of one bounty. And that could be even more for a target who flies cheaper ships. Some wealthy player with a grudge could have someone bountied indefinitely.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

Then limit individual bounty placements to the value that was lost in the initial attack (maybe with an extra 25% overhead on top of that). E.g. if the perp ganked a T1 cruiser worth 20 million, 25 million ISK is the maximum bounty that can be placed in that instance, but if they ganked a 12-billion-ISK freighter, then tough luck, 15 billion is how much they can be put on the hook for. There could also be time limits for bounties, like a year or something.

I’d also possibly extend the kill right system to in-space asset theft (e.g. wreck-looting).

Also, in line with what I said in the previous post, there could be a voluntary fine payment system integrated into the interface in which the perp could pay off the price on their head straight to their victim if they find the hassle of putting up with bounty hunters not worth their time.

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

@tutucox_Khamsi

9 9 9 9 9

Are you trying to speak with the operator?

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Iceacid_Frostpacker

Are you trying to speak with the operator?

its german language
and a obscure joke to ( i was hoping some ppl got it )
because the girls talked about blitzkrieg and ■■■■
ja ja

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

@tutucox_Khamsi

its german language

nein nein

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

@Destiny_Corrupted

I’d also possibly extend the kill right system to in-space asset theft (e.g. wreck-looting).

Yes, sounds perfect so if someone steals your yellow loot you are pinged with a killright.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

A much shorter duration kill right of a few days (stealing isn’t the same as killing after all), and also it would still have to go up on the bounty board to be bid on by bounty hunters. To balance it out, there would be no more instant suspect flag for theft, just a flag toward the corporation from which the items were stolen.

I’m not saying that the current iteration of the suspect flag should disappear entirely, however. There should still be certain circumstances where that’s still possible, like shooting MTUs and such.

None of these ideas are new, by the way. The first time I proposed changes like these was like…over ten years ago? I sometimes bring them up just to show that there could be a working bounty-hunting system in the game, but I’m under no delusion that there ever will be.

[Iceacid_Frostpacker]

Even one day 24 hours, as something worse when someone spends hours mining and Jetcanning their haul to have it swipped by some Orca pilot on a death wish,.

/

@Destiny_Corrupted

None of these ideas are new, by the way. The first time I proposed changes like these was like…over ten years ago? I sometimes bring them up just to show that there could be a working bounty-hunting system in the game, but I’m under no delusion that there ever will be

Just give the word and Frostpacker will try to dig them up for you.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

@Destiny_Corrupted

I’d also possibly extend the kill right system to in-space asset theft

No. Just no. This will wreck whatever highsec pvp meta is in the game right now, and make the career of loot stealing a lot harder for new players.

[Phaade]

@Aiko_Danuja

@Phaade

Security status should matter more.
Thematically, i think this makes sense.

Thematically, it doesn’t. According to the developers, EvE is supposed to be a “cruel”, “cold”, and “dark” realm, ruled by corrupt governments and megacorporations. What fits thematically is that criminals are allowed to dock in stations, and even welcome there. What doesn’t fit thematically is CCP killing their game for a decade straight, by continually nerfing PvP and boring literally everyone (including the miners). People want to fight, and the best thing CCP could do is delete Highsec entirely.

Risk = Fun
Safety = Boring

The safer Highsec becomes, the faster the player count drops. A safe Highsec doesn’t just affect Highsec players, it also kills all the content in lowsec, nullsec, and wormholes - because people just grind in Highsec under the CONCORD umbrella.

Jita must burn.

Lol, no. You’re way off.

If you delete high sec the game would actually die over night.

[Phaade]

@Io_Koval

@Phaade

Yeah i don’t agree at all. This makes no sense.

On the contrary, thinking sec status means anything at all is absolutely insane. One of the very first things I was taught as a newbie is “security status means nothing, no matter the number, simply don’t trust anyone”.

Think about it: security status is a number. I’m about to argue it is just a number, but the road is a bit long.

At the fundamental level, what does this number mean, game-mechanically? It goes up when NPCs are shot and killed by a player, or tags plus ISK is paid to a CONCORD agent (to a limit). It goes down when the player does certain actions in certain areas of space. And here’s the real kicker: these actions are all decided by CCP. Mining doesn’t affect the number. Defending your MTU in high sec doesn’t either. We’ll come back to this “CCP decides” later.

To make matters worse, this number is a sum. It seems like “no duh it’s a sum”, but really rub some brain cells together and think about the ramifications. It’s an accumulation of all past actions. It has zero predictive power. It is a piss-poor erasure of a historical record. It being a historical record means it says nothing about a player’s actions now, nor tomorrow. A 0.0 could mean the guy never does any of the CCP-decided actions; or has done all of them. Likewise, a 5.0 could mean the guy only does certain CCP-decided actions, or all of them in a certain proportion/order. In either case – a 0.0 or 5.0 – their speculative behavior of “oh, what did they do now” is pretty much the same. And what does this matter anyway, knowing what a guy might have done? It still means nothing about what they’ll do today/tomorrow.

With all the above, it then seems insane to my ears to hear people say “security status is a good number”. If they mean “morally good” then they’ve fully bought into CCP’s number hook line and sinker and are the kind of people that talk about how good their USA Experian/Equifax/Other Credit Score is. Adding some sort of stupid morality to this number is equivalent to saying “CCP is saying this is how people Should play the game” – and that’s a moral Should. Which kind of defeats the purpose of being a free pilot in a sandbox. People’s moral obsession with this number (“if it goes down I’m being an evil pilot”) means they start self-imposing or limiting their behavior in-game, instead of being their free self. This gets problematic, because CCP’s decisions about what makes this number go up/down are piss-poor: the canonical example are amicable FW folks that wind up having negative security status, because in lowsec simply taking the Paladin-esque “holy self-defense” actually winds up costing you security status. Are these people really just as “morally evil of pilots” as a suicide ganker? Hey, if a -10 is a -10, then that number says “yes”.

OK, so people probably don’t mean it is a “moral” good. They instead mean it is “good” as in accurate or precise measurement. But here’s the problem: of what? I just spent two paragraphs above showing how it being A) historical, and B) a sum makes it a rather useless number when gauging something about a player’s behavior. Going back to those unfortunate FW folks that still have negative security status: it just means 1) they aren’t letting themselves be steam-rolled by non-FW folks and 2) they don’t want to pay the CONCORD bribes. What about people that are getting endlessly bumped in high sec, wouldn’t they want a justification for lawful combat, and some miners do have ganker alts to protect their high sec belts. Are all these low security status folks in low sec and high sec equally having their pilot behavior judged in an accurate and precise way? Hey, if a -10 is a -10, then “yes”.

So security status:

• Is not a predictor of current nor future capsuleer behavior
• Is really bad at giving an indication of past actions
• Is arbitrarily decided by CCP what makes it go up or down
• Does not tell you why that pilot did those actions nor their “morality”

It’s just a number.

So, despite all this, people that still hold it as some sort of “good” measure I view as being insane: fully Stockholm’d Syndrome’d by CCP into willingly artificially limiting their view of “what can I do in the universe,” which is adjacent to “this is how the game should be played”. That’s stupid. You are a free capsuleer and there is a whole universe full of things you can do. Who cares whether that makes number go up or down. Deal with the consequences in time – if its needed at all – but don’t automatically start writing off things as “bad people do that” or “I don’t do those things” because of this stupid number.

Proposing to limit the capability of “existing” features (“Existing” is a strong, bold word for player bounties LOL) based on this number is nonsense. There are good people with low security status, and there are evil griefers with high security status. Player bounties are a equitable, normalizing force meant to transcend the limitations of security status, and let those high-sec-bumpees and getting-steamrolled-non-paladin-low-seccers have recourse. That’s the point of Freedoms and maximal Rights in the universe: they should be available for everyone equally. Instead, you’re making limited rights and perpetuating inequitable playstyles by shackling the existing system into all the pitfalls thus far explained.

So no, you don’t make sense.

This is a wall of nonsensical drivel.

-10.0 players shoot other players. A LOT. I never made it quite that far but was around -9.6 for a long while.

5.0 players rarely shoot other players.

“Sec status is not an indicator of capauleer behavior” he says with a straight face LOL