We’re stuck in a discussion of the truth value of this list:
I’m not interested in such a discussion. The fact that we had it has raised an insurmountable trust barrier.
Regarding another obvious fact: that we seem to agree on for the moment (but will that be unstable too?) - “Most MMO players are more satisfied with the game, and keep playing longer if they’re in a stable group”.
I’ve never once seen that stated unchallenged in the GD forum. But I’ve seen any number of lunatics denying that helping new players get established will influence new player retention rates.
I don’t know if that is true…but CCP’s general attitude is that when something unexpected happens they don’t necessarily remove it. In fact, IMO, it adds to the game. I know many don’t like bumping, but they simply offer no alternatives and are unwilling to discuss any sort of alternative, IME. Basically I see it as yet another justification for letting players get away with being stupid.
Almost all new players know about permanent equipment loss
Almost all new players know it’s a "free-fire PvP game
Almost all new players know that griefing, theft, piracy, blackmail etc are game-legal.
The only part I have a problem with is the use of almost all, our disagreement is about magnitude not whether or not some new players know something.
Most MMO players are more satisfied with the game, and keep playing longer if they’re in a stable group.
Yep, no disagreement there.
I’ve seen any number of lunatics denying that helping new players get established will influence new player retention rates.
That’s situational.
If we’re talking new players creating groups for other new players it’s a fail cascade waiting to happen; lack of game knowledge will make sure of that.
Someone who knows the game and mechanics on the other hand, they can turn a ragtag bunch of new players into a group capable of handling themselves.
Poor leadership of groups that cater to new players is probably as much responsible for the retention problem as any mechanics.
I can only conclude this is a wild exaggeration. I don’t think that a group of players helping a new player is at all bad for retention. In fact, I think it is probably very good for retention. And there are multiple groups that work at doing this, helping new players. I have seen “bitter vets” argue that CCP shouldn’t do it and I would probably agree with that.
Can you get off your moralizing busybody high horse? It’s getting kind of disgusting. We get it you are a sanctimonious nitwit who thinks he is better than everyone else. Sheesh, give it a rest already.
I don’t think that a link to a relevant article from a neutral organisation like Eve Uni or a 5 minute youtube video when introducing new mechanics would be out of place for starters.
The scanner tutorial vids for instance; although I used it for the 1st time in years the other day, so much more intuitive than in the bad old days of Apocrypha.
I mean they have in game flashy billboards with advertisements of those corporations. Why not just make it possible to click them and get forwarded to the recruitment page of that alliance/corp?
An let’s not forget the Jesus feature “propaganda structures” if something like that ever makes it into the game.
I think for almost everything a good solution consists of CCP just providing the tools and then let the community do the rest. People are extremely interested in retaining new players as is evident by the topic coming up in almost every single thread. That is a far bigger resource than CCP as a company could ever muster.
I think that there’s two schools of thought on new player retention, which causes friction on the forums.
Some favour mass retention, others more selective retention; the old quantity vs quality debate.
I’m firmly in the quality camp. IMHO, proportionally, the mainstream has far more proof of the greater internet dickwad theory being true than Eve, despite our reputation.
EVE is what it is. The quality argument often comes with the request for fundamental game changes. While probably ment well I think those people don’t quite understand the current game market.
The market for games with mainstream appeal is extremely saturated. It is also the case that while some of them have millions of players, they don’t last very long. As soon as a new shiny appears most people jump boat letting the older game die.
EVE goes strong for the last 15 years. That is pretty rare. And while there are surely examples of more successful games and even MMOs, it is a big achievement. And the reason why it could do that is in my opinion exactly because it wasn’t mainstream. There are different tastes and EVE serves some of them extremely well, better than any other game. I don’t think it would survive in the mainstream if it abandoned it’s niche.
So I think the quantity argument is flawed as it is unrealistic. EVE will not appeal to most typical gamers. The only challenge we have is to communicate the essence of this game to new players that they understand what is so special about it, so they can make an educated decision and not quit out of boredom because all they ever saw was dull mining and missions.
We keep telling people this, somehow the concept of a successful niche product is beyond them, despite there being plenty of examples of other real world niche products that are successful.
Yeah, it’s not just here, I see this argument everywhere. I’m not sure if there is a name for the phenomenon.
For example I work on various niche open source projects and on almost all of them you get people who come into the chat channels with “ideas” like “you need to implement this and this and then you will beat the popular thing from google (or whatever) otherwise no one will use your program and your project will fail”.
Maybe it is unrelated, but I find it similar enough to see some parallels here. In any case it is pretty obvious that it is a falacy and comes from the ignorance about how markets or in my example open source works.
Those are good, but it I wonder how effective they would be. How many would watch/read vs. simply close it and try to play the game as if it were a console game…but then again, lets not let the perfect be the good of the enemy…so do it, but my guess more would be needed.
It sucks not having friends in game that can help you. And of course, not being bumped would have been even better. Would love to see the killmail and how much this guy was hauling.
Edit:
Looks like twice.
Both times with more than 1.4 billion or about an expected drop of 700 million. The first one dropped the plastic warpped package worth…almost 1.5 billion…nice.
Carry less next time. Use a scout. Use a webber. Consider a JF.
Edit II:
Doesn’t look you were carrying that much…for crying out loud put a tank on it.
Yes, that was stupid and it won’t happen again to me. I think I have learned how to shorten this one way or another.
Which are ganked empty because they drop expensive killmails.
I usually do but mistakes happen. The event I’m referring to did not end with a killmail, I got away after 70+ minutes. And I carried 179m. And I had 3 Bulkheads. As I see it I was bumped to keep AG occupied while other ships were ganked. I can understand that tactic.
I’m not complaining I lost ships, I appreciate gankers creating risk in hisec. That feels right. I feel it’s inconsistent that there are ways to keep ships on grid - agressing them as it is - for an indefinte amount of time without flags being raised.
I wish CCP would follow up on that Warp Timer.
If you are ganked in a JF then your really, really, really deserve it. If you don’t have an emergency cyno on standby or aren’t jumping over these gank spots and you get ganked…serves you right.
A scout can stop this pretty easy. When I used a freighter and CODE. were in Uedama I simply would dock up a few jumps out and wait. Eventually I got bored with that and bought a JF and would simply jump over these choke points and solve the problem that way.
Don’t be the distraction.
Stop looking to CCP and solve the problem yourself, that was generally the solution 9 years ago. Now it is CCPlease.
This forum it open to anyone with an EVE account who obeys a fairly relaxed set of requirements. Feel free to ask CCP to ban me for not following the rules. Or is it for not agreeing with you? It’s hard to tell.
General Discussion (plus overflows like this) is probably the least honest forum in gaming (but even so it’s not as crazy as e.g. the tens of thousands of “SJW” forums on the web). It has a nasty “rookie-hating” undertone, and has had that tone for well over ten years (the entire time I’ve been interested in EVE).
It interests me for a number of reasons. Inexplicable, but interesting.
Why should any normal person be concerned by the collective disapproval of such a forum?
The “negs” are a normal part of the delusion/denial pattern that creates the fog. Along with the eccentric logic, stalking, a private “creative reinterpretation” of essential terminology, casual mendacity, etc …
… and the truly puzzling inability of even the most intense and enthusiastic haters (**) to come up with a decent insult.
(**)
Teckos - for the record, that’s not intended for you. I don’t include you in the category “hater” at all.
