As I wrote in another thread: I can accept that bumping is a time tested technique to keep your target freighter in place long enough for your ganking fleet to arrive.
It’s just ridiculous that bumpers occasionally take their sweet time doing so. I was bumped on March 23rd in Niarja from around 15:55 to 17:08 before they finally arrived to start shooting.
That is not an imminent gank. That is sadism.
Art takes time.
2 Likes
Topic Moved to Crime and Punishment.
~Buldath
You are not a noob, you know that Niarja, Uedama and a couple of others systems around Jita and Hek are playing ground for bumpers and gankers. You know what they use to bump, and it’s pretty simple to know when they operate. You should know that, besides a couple of more or less efficient techniques to evade the baddies, the only way to protect your assets is to avoid jumping a gate where a known bumper in an obvious bumping ship is sitting on the other side. You jumped into the trap, no one forced you to.
1 Like
I initially failed to understand @ISD_Buldath ‘s unilateral decision to move a discussion of bumping to the "crime’ section. However, upon reflection, I realize that he meant to imply bumping is a form of “punishment” for those who refuse to pay rent or purchase an official state-sanctioned mining permit.
Regardless, I notice that much of this discussion revolves around the retainment of ‘new’ players, with the common myth being perpetuated that freighters and orcas are piloted by such new players. Ignoring such notions, I’d like to ask whether the goal should be to retain every new player? For every new player who flees in disgrace, is it possible word spreads, and we gain a new player of a different sort? This game certainly captured me from World of Tanks and Starcraft II, precisely because it offers a realism which other games lack.
I would like to see EVE be a game which aspires toward a certain type of individual, a specific personality which craves a particularly difficult and unforgiving game. The carebear is already well satisfied by Minecraft’s creative mode, and can even play Farmville to their heart’s content. I would hope EVE continues to cater to those of us who want to not merely play a game, but wish to thoroughly destroy our hapless enemies. I want to hear the gnashing of teeth and wailing lamentations. It is that very entertainment which convinces me to continue my subscription.
Should a CCP staff member read this post, I wish to remind you of the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other game I’ve seen. If you lose this aspect, you will lose the essence of EVE. This is the only game in which I can thoroughly defeat the enemy, forcing them to capitulate or face utter and complete destruction. Most first person shooters or real-time strategy games last about 15 minutes, before everything is reset. Even in Paradox Interative games, I need merely start a new game, and suddenly everything is reset to the beginning. However, in EVE, conquests are permanent. Defeats matter, and thus victory is also something that matters. This is a unique game, and those who wish to survive, must be willing to engage the other players in DIPLOMACY. My alliance seeks to foster that, by offering a very generous settlement package, requiring a modest tribute to our high king.
When I joined EVE, I was promised the opportunity to build my dream, and destroy their dream. I expect nothing less. Even better, I’ve unexpectedly been convinced to build someone else’s dream, because I actually acknowledge them as a legitimate authority figure. I’ve been in clans and guilds and corporations before, but I’ve never before felt genuine loyalty to the sacred cause. EVE is thus the greatest of wargames, because it offers no mercy for those who fail to learn from their mistakes and refuse to take it seriously.
2 Likes
Stereotypes… that’s not 2019.
2 Likes
2 Likes
I dont think you read my post.
I acknowledged that new players could know about all of these. But its different from knowing, and actually experiencing it.
Knowing you can lose everything in a single ship, is different from experiencing it. You can read about World War 2 and say “Meh, it doesnt sound too bad, all you have to do is stand in the trenches for a couple weeks, i could do that!”
All of what you said can be true, and the bittervets can also be right.
1 Like
You may have dropped into the middle of a discussion you don’t understand due to a lack of context.
If not: great start! Why not take the time to get better acquainted with your potential future litter-mates.
Of course it is!!! being despised by your kind is the sweetest thing attainable on this sad forum.
2 Likes
Jonah
An example demonstrates what’s possible. They can provide a good start for a theory and for designing an experiment to test the theory.
A statistically insignificant number of examples doesn’t identify the norm though.
One of the many “elephants in the room” of EVE is that there’s a very well known example of a group that figured out how to keep their new players, and became quite a large organization. I’ve never seen any sign that CCP or the “bittervet collective” even considered this interesting fact.
PS
Since this thread has been moved, it’s almost certain to wither and die. If you don’t feel like answering, feel free to abandon our micro-arc. This is as good a place to stop as any.
Solonius
See the “possibilities vs norms” part of my post to Jonah Gravenstein above.
It’s not the same case as yours, but as I said earlier (approximately) - a lot of what you said is interesting, but it’s still anecdotal evidence.
We have some things that are very likely to be true: my three-point list is one.
But we’re talking about a process with a small proportion of “successes” and a large proportion of “failures”
This is an exceptionally bad context for applying anecdotes and associations that might be partially relevant.
BTW - as per my post to Jonah, I think this is a good time to stop. But if another thread comes up in GD, feel free to restart from here.
You misunderstand the nature of the relationship between my stalkers and me.
Their job is to entertain me.
I have no interest in their opinions of me, and minimal interest in their opinions of anything else.
The only exception is that they can grow up and leave the litter at any time by starting to make posts that are polite, and either interesting or useful.
So is yours
What??? Never!!!
1 Like
That is not my point and I even agree with you on that. I just wanted to remark that being bumped for so long feels profoundly broken to me. Especially since the ganking fleet that finally arrived took the liberty to gank at least two other targets in the meantime.
The idea CCP had two years ago sounds very appealing to me: After warp is initiated, ship enters warp after a set time regardless, let it even be 20 Minutes - should be enough to get your buddies online and into the System. If you can’t, you shouldn’t bump imo.
You’re not looking very hard, while there is some banter about some of them, the groups that manage to retain new players tend to be respected for it; by players and CCP.
Your three point list is your opinion, my opinion is the opposite; without metrics that show evidence either way both opinions are equally as valid.
1 Like
Nice The Drac score! 3 out of 5:
-
He has an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
-
He is usually absorbed in fantasies of power, success, beauty and/or brilliance.
-
He overrates the importance of his achievements.
(yes, I skipped nr. 3)
2 Likes
You are butt hurt… 
Cry more please… 
Jonah
You seem to be trying to draw me into the “bittervet fog” after all. I’m not interested.
As for the “how to keep players” sub-topic: I’ve never seen a single sane comment in GA from a bittervet about player retention (and my visits to this forum go back to before Elena was hatched). There have been some constructive posts, but those I’ve seen have been immediately “shouted down” by the radical reactionaries …
… and the moderates (if there are any) do nothing about it.
I expect the crazies - and EVE attracts more then most games - but the complicit silence of everyone else is a concern.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
Not at all, my opinions just differ from yours, being based on what I’ve seen, and in some cases played a small part in.
I’m well aware that others may have had a different experience and that their opinions, like mine, are coloured by their experiences.
IMHO the place to focus on new player retention is ingame, in this respect CCP could do better; the NPE being a poor introduction to a game like Eve with little in the way of official support. There is a mass of resources out there that CCP isn’t encouraging new players to use, which I believe to be a missed opportunity.
Traditionally new player retention has been left to us, the players. Organisations such as the CAS special interest groups, Eve Uni, Goons, Brave, Horde and TEST are the result of that.
Most tend to have their own forums and, to some extent, open game information resources; as such the forums are poorly representative of players at large because most don’t use them, more so of those groups of players, old and new, within OOG communities where newbie retention tends to be higher.
3 Likes